Bought a Crown Graphic ... Now what do I do?

[robklurfield]

I bought this nice Crown Graphic over the weekend via eBay. Waiting for some film holders and film to arrive now. Camera is very, very clean and nearly everything seems to work. A couple of issues, however.

The optical rangefinder doesn't seem to be coupled at all. The coincident images (well, they'd be coincident if I managed to get them to move) seem frozen in an out-of-focus position and don't move at all when I focus. I haven't tested the red-dot rangefinder yet (no batteries at the moment) but assume it won't work either. The seller, who seems to have lots of integrity, has offered to accept a return (including even postage!).

I know that many Graphic users never use the rangefinder, preferring to rely on solely on ground glass & loupe focusing. I'd like the option of using both.

Does anyone have any clue what might be wrong? Missing cam? a stuck, broken or missing piece of linkage thing-a-ma-jig? Operator error (remember, I'm new to this, so maybe I'm the broken piece)?

Other issue is that the piece that links the body shutter release to the shutter release apparatus mounted to the lens board seems to be missing. It's some sort of a small stiff wire that actuates the shutter when the body release button is pushed. Is this a part that one can find anywhere? I can live without it if need be.

Lastly, if everything else works -- and it seems to so far -- did I overpay at $325 for a very clean top RF Crown???

I'd prefer to keep this if I can get it to work, so any advice is appreciated. Seller says it was purchased from David Reichert who is supposedly a camera restoration expert.

Famous last words: the shutter sounds accurate.:bang:

 

[Ronald M]

There used to be a website devoted to them. May or may not still exist.

My opinion is I really do not like them. Too big, too slow, insufficient movements ,Optar lenses are only so so. Great for newspaper guys back in the day60 years ago. Pop in a flash bulb, set to f8, stand at 10 feet.

 

[wlewisiii]

I'll take the opposite end of the argument - they're still some of the most interesting cameras still out there. I love mine for landscapes.

Your specific problem sounds like a missing cam. Depending upon the lens installed that may or may not be a problem. Don't forget that you can always focus any appropriate lens on the ground glass.

But start here: http://www.graflex.org
then go here: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/ and read all their articles and sign up for the forum.

Have fun!

William

 

[bwcolor]

OT.. You have a good image for the self-portrait thread.

 

[Colin Corneau]

William said it well. I have a Crown -- the rangefinder works (and is accurate) on mine...sounds like a cam is missing and this can be fixed.

I should add these are amazing cameras to travel with. I took mine on a previous trip to China and I sure was glad for a camera that gave me 4x5 negs with a Schneider lens!
It was amazing having a camera that folded up tight and secure for travelling...a very tough camera that worked like a charm.

FWIW, I used the ground glass and a loupe for my shooting. That was back before I realized the rangefinder worked. It's a bit more troublesome but not a barrier to making great images.

Best of luck!

 

[Keith]

Without an effective rangefinder a lot of the appeal of the camera would be lost IMO. They are a hoot to use hand held Rob!

I've had a few issues with mine but nothing I haven't been able to fix myself by applying logic. The rangefinder is operated by a cable from a plunger thingy on the left rear of the lower side of the camera ... make sure that's all there! 🙂

 

[KenR]

I had one for a few years to see if I liked large format. I really enjoyed the format and so I sold the Crown and bought a Wista with Fuji and Schneider lenses. As always, as soon as I sold it, I regreted it. For travel purposes, the Crown can't be beat as it folds up into its own well protected case. Mine had the Kodak lens on it and never failed to give me great images. True the movements were limited and the more modern lenses are probably better, but the Crown was great for me as a learning camera.

 

[robklurfield]

Aha! That's got to be it. The "plunger thingy" has no cable. And, I'm not sure where to look for the "missing" cam.

Keith, you read my mind about hand-held shooting. Of course, I can use the ground glass and a magnifier on a tripod for landscape-type work, but I like the idea of being able to the Weegee thing, so you're quite right about what appealed to me. And, this being RFF, why shouldn't I want a working rangefinder.

Anyone know where to find the parts I'm missing? A cam and the "cable" that goes with "the plunger thingie?"

Without an effective rangefinder a lot of the appeal of the camera would be lost IMO. They are a hoot to use hand held Rob!

I've had a few issues with mine but nothing I haven't been able to fix myself by applying logic. The rangefinder is operated by a cable from a plunger thingy on the left rear of the lower side of the camera ... make sure that's all there! 🙂

 

[presspass]

I seem to recall Lens and Repro in NYC has Graphic equipment and may have parts or can suggest a repair person.

 

[fbf]

first thing i did was to remove all the rangefinder gadget... i wanted a light weight 4x5 that i can take anywhere with me.

 

[robklurfield]

They do seem to have a repair service and I think Essex Camera also does Graflex work. Let's see what I can find out. Thanks for the tip.

I seem to recall Lens and Repro in NYC has Graphic equipment and may have parts or can suggest a repair person.

 

[ChrisN]

Aha! That's got to be it. The "plunger thingy" has no cable. And, I'm not sure where to look for the "missing" cam.

...

Anyone know where to find the parts I'm missing? A cam and the "cable" that goes with "the plunger thingie?"

The cam is in the base of the rangefinder mechanism. Have a look inside the top of the body, above where the bellows stores. There's a metal flap, spring-loaded, and hinged. You can push that down to expose the cam and associated mechanism. The cable comes from the back right-hand side (looking from the front of the camera), from the back of the sliding track that carries the front standard back and forward when you focus with the little knobs on the fold-down front.

You might be pulling the front standard too far out. I have the 127mm lens on my Speed Graphic, and when focussed on infinity the front standard is less than an inch from the body. The Crown may be thinner in the body. Does the camera have infinity stops to limit the forward movement of the front standard on the focusing track?

 

[Steve M.]

It's a nice, later model Crown Graphic. You didn't mention what lens is on it, but unless it's a killer lens, I would consider sending it back. You have $325 in it now, and it sounds like it will have to be sent out to get the RF going. If you're patient, you should be able to get an early model, perhaps w/ a good Ektar or Xenar lens and Graflok back, for $250 or so. Having one of these w/ a properly working RF makes a big difference. If it's tuned in, you don't need to use the GG even on landscapes unless you need movements.

 

[Keith]

I meant to mention if you're going to use it hand held you'll definitely be needing to get that body shutter release working.

They're a really fun camera ... I hope you get it sorted quickly.

What about processing the 4x5 negs ... you'll need some way of doing that also! I have a Paterson Orbital which I picked from eBay ... it can do four negs in a couple of hundred ml of solution and is extremely easy to load and use. There's several alternatives but nothing much is as economical as the Paterson aside from tray developing. I also have a contraption called a Combi Plan which uses a litre of solution to develop six negs and leaks like a bloody sieve ... whoever designed the lid should be shot! 😛

 

[robklurfield]

Yup, I read some of those threads about processing. I'm thinking of the tortilla method in a three-reel Paterson tank for starters. A fellow in the UK is selling an interesting film holder on ebay that fits in those tanks and he's even got a video showing how easily he can load sheets into it (don't believe everything you see, right?). Here's a link.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130508096411&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:ITThe orbital looks cool, too. The Combi Plan looks fussy and prone to leaking if you're as ham-handed as me.

As to the body shutter release, I suppose I could get by with a cable release for hand-held as well.

I meant to mention if you're going to use it hand held you'll definitely be needing to get that body shutter release working.

They're a really fun camera ... I hope you get it sorted quickly.

What about processing the 4x5 negs ... you'll need some way of doing that also! I have a Paterson Orbital which I picked from eBay ... it can do four negs in a couple of hundred ml of solution and is extremely easy to load and use. There's several alternatives but nothing much is as economical as the Paterson aside from tray developing. I also have a contraption called a Combi Plan which uses a litre of solution to develop six negs and leaks like a bloody sieve ... whoever designed the lid should be shot! 😛

 

[robklurfield]

135/4.7 Optar.

It's a nice, later model Crown Graphic. You didn't mention what lens is on it, but unless it's a killer lens, I would consider sending it back. You have $325 in it now, and it sounds like it will have to be sent out to get the RF going. If you're patient, you should be able to get an early model, perhaps w/ a good Ektar or Xenar lens and Graflok back, for $250 or so. Having one of these w/ a properly working RF makes a big difference. If it's tuned in, you don't need to use the GG even on landscapes unless you need movements.

 

[robklurfield]

Chris, thanks for your insights. I'll play around with the standard and look up into the rf box. I got similar advice from some folks on LFPF (including our own Frank Petronio). some of them said that if the cam is intact, it might be out of whack or that the lubricants have become solidified and are preventing the cam and all the linkage stuff from moving freely. the standard does have one pair if infinity stops. The focus patch never moves at all.I pulled the bellows out until it reached the stops, then focused. I have no problem focusing with the ground glass (and a 7x loupe), but that's certainly not effective for hand-held shooting.

The cam is in the base of the rangefinder mechanism. Have a look inside the top of the body, above where the bellows stores. There's a metal flap, spring-loaded, and hinged. You can push that down to expose the cam and associated mechanism. The cable comes from the back right-hand side (looking from the front of the camera), from the back of the sliding track that carries the front standard back and forward when you focus with the little knobs on the fold-down front.

You might be pulling the front standard too far out. I have the 127mm lens on my Speed Graphic, and when focussed on infinity the front standard is less than an inch from the body. The Crown may be thinner in the body. Does the camera have infinity stops to limit the forward movement of the front standard on the focusing track?

 

[robklurfield]

 

[Muggins]

You bought the Crown Graphic so that you had a box to keep the Baby Brownie Special in, right....? 😛

Adrian

 

[Particular]

Now what do I do?

Get a pair of Grafmatic film holders! They'll really speed up operation once you get your rangefinder working. They can be a pain to load, but other than that are a pleasure.

For developing, in the past I have used an old Jobo print drum, which I modified to hold 6 sheets. I would just roll it side to side on my countertop for agitation. It was a very simple effective solution.
As I don't have that tank here, I am going to try the 'tortilla Trick' as well. I tray developed some sheets last week. You can't get more low tech than that.