m4-p strange serial number....

C

cicala

Established
Local time
1:28 PM
Joined
Apr 20, 2011
Messages
60
Location
Genova Italy
View My Gallery
hi everybody, i'm looking for a leica m and in these days i've found on ebay one leica mp with this serial number 1.532.950 ...............according to this link
http://www.cameraquest.com/mtype.htm
this number is referring to a leica 4-2 and not to a m4-p .................now my first idea is that the seller try to sell somethis fake and I ask him some explanation ......he told to me that leitz sometime do like this at the end of the series .......................Idont belive to him because sound to me very strange ....untill i've found anothe m4-p with this serial number 1532583 that seems to be again an m4-2 serial number..........sorry for my english that is a little be Italians .......do you know something about this.....
 
Last edited:
It's not a question that can be answered with great certainty. The published lists of serial numbers for Leica gear are known to be imperfect.

For example: The same site you cited also says that lens SSN 995xxx was made in 1952, which is pre-M series. But my early M-3 (SSN=747xxx), purchased back in the 1970s, arrived with a collapsible 50 Summicron, with SSN 995xxx.

So, a 50 'Cron made in 1952, for a camera series launched in 1954?
 
IIRC my M4-P has a serial number making it a M4-2 so for some reason it must be fairly common. I could not find an adequate answer so just carried on enjoying the camera.

Bob
 
I had an M6 with the Serial number 1692233 which indicated
it was one of 270 made in 1986 with Canada markings, I bought new in 1990, serviced under passport 1991. It did not have Canada markings. I think they had a bucket of serial numbers, and reached in and grabbed a handful and sometimes things just got out of order. 😱
 
The M4-2 and M5 was the time that serial numbers migrated from being engraved on the top plate onto the hot shoe. As Leica assigned large batches of serial numbers in advance it would make sense that they carried on using them until they ran out, and not throw away a bin load of pre-numbered hot shoes just because the M4-P came along.

Steve
 
Thanhyou very much to everybody , so one problem less .....now I've only to fight for the price .......the machine is not in a really good shape ..........but he asking me only 400 euro.....
 
400 euros is a pretty good price, although i dont know how bad a shape it is, and if it needs a CLA which it sounds like it might, factor that in too. I think it was Youxin who said, if the body looks neglected, chances are greater that the insides might also be neglected. But not always, try and get information on its history, last serviced and all that good stuff.
 
250swb said:
The M4-2 and M5 was the time that serial numbers migrated from being engraved on the top plate onto the hot shoe. As Leica assigned large batches of serial numbers in advance it would make sense that they carried on using them until they ran out, and not throw away a bin load of pre-numbered hot shoes just because the M4-P came along.

Steve
Click to expand...

That is an the explanation that makes sense to me. My M4-P has the brass top plate so I am guessing that it was early production as latter ones have the zinc top plate of the M6? I wonder if the others with M4-2 serial numbers also have brass top plates?

Bob
 
Nikon Bob said:
That is an the explanation that makes sense to me. My M4-P has the brass top plate so I am guessing that it was early production as latter ones have the zinc top plate of the M6? I wonder if the others with M4-2 serial numbers also have brass top plates?

Bob
Click to expand...


Another place where it's wise to be careful about serial numbers and the supposed date of manufacture. The Cameraquest site says of the M4-P: " Very late M4-P's have M6 style top plates".

Well, I once owned an M4-P with serial number 1622xxx, supposedly therefore manufactured in the first half of 1983. That's hardly very late in the M4-P's run, but it definitely had the M6 top plate.
 
The M4P changed to alloy top plate (like a M6) around 161xx xxx. There are plenty of brass ones around that number too - seems like Leica techs just grabbed a top-plate, be it alloy or brass and used it. Best way of id'ing them is the fact that late M4P's had only an X-synch contact - no M-synch and the flush windows.
As for confused # early numbers. As stated, Leica only engraved the shoe with the number, though occasionally I have seen # written inside the camera, either under the top-plate or the last 3-4 numbers pencilled in on the wall of the film"cavity".
In user terms, it does not make any difference as the late M4-2's where identical to the M4P mechanically. Only the finder was different (28/75 frames). Also, it is quite difficult to "fake" a M4-2 as a P. The top-plate engraving is large and distinct.
However, there are a lot of M4P top-plates out there as parts and with the shoe as the only # indicator - it would be easy to assemble a M4P from parts.
Euro 400 is not too bad, if the camera functions and the finder is clean. Add maybe another Euro 100 for a check of speeds and rangefinder. If it needs a complete CLA it would be an iffy proposition though.
The M4P/M4-2 are very robust. I have had at least 14-15 of them and, too put it bluntly, beaten the s**t out of several. Always performed well, easy to have fixed, no electronics to go "bump" in the night either.
I still have two of them, both early ones (# 1544xxx/1548xxx), too beaten up to bother trading and in the end I just kept them, had them serviced and one repainted by Shintaro in crackle finish black.
 
Tom

I'm always fascinated by your posts. You should write a book about Leica cameras, lenses and all of their variations.

Tom A said:
The M4P changed to alloy top plate (like a M6) around 161xx xxx. There are plenty of brass ones around that number too - seems like Leica techs just grabbed a top-plate, be it alloy or brass and used it. Best way of id'ing them is the fact that late M4P's had only an X-synch contact - no M-synch and the flush windows.
As for confused # early numbers. As stated, Leica only engraved the shoe with the number, though occasionally I have seen # written inside the camera, either under the top-plate or the last 3-4 numbers pencilled in on the wall of the film"cavity".
In user terms, it does not make any difference as the late M4-2's where identical to the M4P mechanically. Only the finder was different (28/75 frames). Also, it is quite difficult to "fake" a M4-2 as a P. The top-plate engraving is large and distinct.
However, there are a lot of M4P top-plates out there as parts and with the shoe as the only # indicator - it would be easy to assemble a M4P from parts.
Euro 400 is not too bad, if the camera functions and the finder is clean. Add maybe another Euro 100 for a check of speeds and rangefinder. If it needs a complete CLA it would be an iffy proposition though.
The M4P/M4-2 are very robust. I have had at least 14-15 of them and, too put it bluntly, beaten the s**t out of several. Always performed well, easy to have fixed, no electronics to go "bump" in the night either.
I still have two of them, both early ones (# 1544xxx/1548xxx), too beaten up to bother trading and in the end I just kept them, had them serviced and one repainted by Shintaro in crackle finish black.
Click to expand...
 
Peter. there is already enough books on Leicas. Jim Lagers massive "triology" - 1200 pages of Leica knowledge as well as multiple others. problem is that the fakes ot obscure ones are difficult to pin down - owners rarely wants it known that they were had - and the "fakers" definitely does not want it to be known that they made them!
Jim Lager once stated "Of the 418 original Leica MP's - at least 800 are fakes!"
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

I
Used Leica’s serial unknown to Leica?
2 3 4
Replies
68
Views
1K
sojournerphoto
S
Rob-F
How's Your Luck with Roberts Camera/Used Photopro?
2
Replies
20
Views
786
Pioneer
Pioneer
Räuber
Sonnar 5cm fakes?
Replies
14
Views
2K
Räuber
Räuber
F
Searching For List Or Database Of Fuji GW 690 Series Cameras Matching Serial Number to Production Year
Replies
6
Views
883
fritzj3
F
Godfrey
Musings on Leica IIIc and Leica M4-2
Replies
7
Views
1K
Godfrey
Godfrey
Back
Top Bottom