Question about Barnacks and film compatability!

[PatrickCheung]

I'm looking to buy a barnack leica soon, but I just want to clear a few things up before I make any purchases.

Are barnack leicas compatible with modern pre-loaded film cartridges? I read some things about misalligned frames and what not... makes me a little hesitant on picking one up.

Also, what should the price on a Leica iiic or iiif be? I just want to know what I should expect to pay... to avoid scams and all.

 

[archeophoto]

A good IIIf will set you back ca. $300-400. If you are lucky you get a lens with it.
Barnacks are compatible with all modern film cartridges. I never had a problem with my Barnacks. Technically you have to trim the leader longer, but I don't do that either. The business card method works like a charm:
http://www.mediajoy.com/en/lrc/b/index.html

Barnack's are not difficult to load, don't let anybody scare you. I don't even have to set mine down on a table anymore.

Have fun and good luck!

I'm looking to buy a barnack leica soon, but I just want to clear a few things up before I make any purchases.

Are barnack leicas compatible with modern pre-loaded film cartridges? I read some things about misalligned frames and what not... makes me a little hesitant on picking one up.

Also, what should the price on a Leica iiic or iiif be? I just want to know what I should expect to pay... to avoid scams and all.

 

[hteasley]

I've had no trouble with anything in my IIIf. Loading was an issue for me, until Youxin showed me the technique I use now: remove the lens, fire the shutter on T to keep the shutter open, and help the film in from the front, through the shutter. I couldn't get the film lined up well otherwise, but this works very well.

 

[maddoc]

Leicas Screw Mount cameras are NOT 100% compatible with modern film canisters since these are shorter than the original Leitz reloadable film canisters. As a workaround, the later cameras have a small ridge mounted in the base plate that presses the film upwards to keep it aligned.

I have a IIIf and IIIb and both work only well with original FILCA film canisters, using modern film canisters either the frames a slightly tilted or partially exposed into the sprocket holes. From memory, at least my IIIf has not such a modification of the base plate.

 

[archeophoto]

I have shot hundreds of films with my Barnacks (IIIc, IIIf and IIIg) now and NEVER had a tilted photo or a exposed sprocket hole with a modern cartridge. I think those things only happen to people that worry too much about details 😉

Leicas Screw Mount cameras are NOT 100% compatible with modern film canisters since these are shorter than the original Leitz reloadable film canisters. As a workaround, the later cameras have a small ridge mounted in the base plate that presses the film upwards to keep it aligned.

I have a IIIf and IIIb and both work only well with original FILCA film canisters, using modern film canisters either the frames a slightly tilted or partially exposed into the sprocket holes. From memory, at least my IIIf has not such a modification of the base plate.

 

[maddoc]

I have shot hundreds of films with my Barnacks (IIIc, IIIf and IIIg) now and NEVER had a tilted photo or a exposed sprocket hole with a modern cartridge. I think those things only happen to people that worry too much about details 😉

... "great attention to detail" is sometimes necessary. 😉

 

[fuji645]

I've used modern Kodak canisters as well my own bulk load cassettes on my IIIc since I purchased it quite a few years ago. Loading is an acquired skill and a bit tricky at first but you can get the hang of it. Never had a problem with alignment or exposure on the sprockets. That would appear to be a result of poor loading technique--not cassettes.

 

[maddoc]

The problem with a combination of certain screw mount Leicas, film canisters and exposure into the sprocket holes has been discussed in this thread in the Leica User Forum, btw. It is not something that I have made up. 😉

 

[bukaj]

I had the issue with film not being aligned in my iiic. Solution was putting a felt furniture pad on the locking mechanism on the bottom plate. This thread shows it: http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101163

As far as loading, I trim the leader, but don't find it difficult at all to load film. Key is to take up any slack after putting the film in, making sure the sprocket catches, and making sure the film rewind knob is turning backwards as you wind film. Have a really good website that shows up, but it's currently down.
http://www.zorkikat.com/entering-fr...-also-for-fed-zorki-and-canon-rf-cameras/115/

 

[rogerzilla]

My IIIa put the frames slightly off centre on the film. It didn't cause an issue with commercial dev & print. My IIf centred them properly and it had the little "pusher" on the baseplate.

 

[David Murphy]

They work fine with stock 35mm cartridges (the Leica manuals even say so as I recall). One problem I've had with the local Walmart here is that the film processing machine jams on the specially trimmed film tongue - they've been able to deal with it however.

 

[250swb]

No problems loading my IIIf RD with modern films.

I think the first thing anybody should do is try to load a film normally (as if its an M body) into a Barnack Leica, do it with the shutter open so you can see what is happening. As soon as people understand the problem (the film not engaging on the gear teeth and this stopping the film going all the way in) the battle is won and the solutions make more sense.

I think the 'load it with the shutter open' is by far the safest way with my camera, but I'm sure other cameras have their own little ways and the card method works just as well. The reason I think for me the shutter open method works is that not only is it foolproof, but when I think the film is all the way in with the card method, I can take the lens off, open the shutter, and still push the film into position a little further. So while card works, lens off works even better every time, for my camera. All the frames line up square and no sprocket holes encroach on the imges.

Steve

 

[Roger Hicks]

I always trim the leader to half width for 4"/15cm, as specified, and have never had a problem loading. It doesn't need to be a super-accurate trim: the scissors on a Swiss Army knife are fine. Just don't go through the middle of a perforation.

Why do it any other way? Anything else is a work-around. I'd never even heard of the business card trick until a few years ago.

Cheers,

R.

 

[kully]

What Roger said - just trim the leader and it loads as easily as an M2/M3. I just make a nick with my tooth and then tear down the length of my thumb.

 

[Mark Wood]

Another strong vote of support for Roger's comments. A well known UK Leica repairer told me he hates the idea of people pushing business cards and fingers through open shutters into Leicas as he gets to see (and is expected to repair) the aftermath when these things go wrong. In fact he's included film cutting instructions with serviced cameras he's returned to me as he believes in doing things the right way. OK, here comes the long list of people who've been "doing it this way for years with no problem"....!!

My Leica II had a deep scratch in the pressure plate which he reckoned could only have come from something being stuck through the shutter to try to position film.

None of this is a problem if the film is cut properly which really isn't rocket science.

 

[Sparrow]

wot the others said, trim the first bit of the leader, around 4" or the width of ones' hand. Cut or tear it about half the films' width, no need to be particularly accurate, it loads as easy as a M2 or 3 without risk of damage to the camera.

I've never had any alignment problems with commercial cassettes, sounds like an interweb thing to me

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

I'm with the others; trim the leader and load as in the book. No shortage of manuals as pdf's on the web.

As for the cassette height, I've a series of pictures where you can see a black edge creep into the print, which gets bigger and bigger and then smaller and vanishes over a run of 10 or so frames. Only obvious as a one hour lab was used.

If you put a modern film cassette into a 30's Leica and shake it up and down you can hear the cassette going up and down as well. There's about 3mm difference between the Leica 1B cassettes and modern ones. So use a felt pad.

Going back to the original question, I'd say either buy a good looking one from an auction site and then get it thoroughly serviced (after putting a test roll through it) or else go to a dealer and pay the extra (and hope he/she will honour the guarantee).

You can have a lot of fun with a 30's Leica, especially if you've a modern "all singing and all dancing" camera because the modern ones help you forget how to take a photograph...

Regards, David

 

[helen.HH]

I have had a few Barnacks
iIIa, IIIf
And now a different IIIa
NEVER had a problem loading till this 'new' IIIa
The spool always seems to unravel
Youxin said its a very old spool and funky

Does anyone have an EXTRA film spool to purchase
Or seen any Around ??

Thx in Advance for any Help

Best- H

 

[Mr_Flibble]

Helen, have you tried the one from the other IIIa in it?

Patrick,
I never had a problem with misalligned film with regular 135 film cartridges in any of my barnacks. If you do the felt pad solution seems to solve it fine.

Concerning loading: Cutting the film leader takes a little preparation time, but it saves a lot of hassle in the field.
Taking the lens off and guiding the film into position through the film plane works fine for me too.
I don't use the creditcard technique.

After loading be sure to take up the slack in the film with the rewind knob and watch it turn when you turn the advance button.

 

[Nikon Bob]

People seem to have luck with all the different film loading methods but personally I trim the leader which is the factory recommended way. After loading I back wind the film to make sure the sprockets are engaged. I have post war Barnacks and the IIIc allows the film to sit lower so it is not centered. The IIIf has the tab on the baseplate which keeps the film centered. There is a reason Leica put the tab on the IIIf baseplate with modern film canisters being slightly shorter. If you have not had any problems with the film not being centered consider yourself lucky but the issue itself is not a figment of anyone's imagination, it does happen.

Bob