slight
Member
It has been in my mind for a few days...the thing is, I can not really afford an ORIGINAL black paint M3, and I doubt anyone could afford it really takes it out to take pictures and maintain it in a regular way.
So it happened to me, if I really want a work horse black paint M3/ Mp, it could be much more convenient to buy a beaten up M3 and send it for internal rebuild and custom black/ olive repaint. Shintaro in Japan is well known for his repaint works. Prices range from 500-800 USD.
Might be the most economic way of having one's own black M3; makes a deadly shooter with rigid. And if you are interested in changing the leather into calf or anything like that, you are actually making yourself an A LA CARTE M3.
How much would you anticipate? How much will you be willing to pay for this kind of project? Has anyone done this before?
So it happened to me, if I really want a work horse black paint M3/ Mp, it could be much more convenient to buy a beaten up M3 and send it for internal rebuild and custom black/ olive repaint. Shintaro in Japan is well known for his repaint works. Prices range from 500-800 USD.
Might be the most economic way of having one's own black M3; makes a deadly shooter with rigid. And if you are interested in changing the leather into calf or anything like that, you are actually making yourself an A LA CARTE M3.
How much would you anticipate? How much will you be willing to pay for this kind of project? Has anyone done this before?
Frontman
Well-known
I wouldn't mind having Shintaro paint one of my cameras, but I don't want to be without my camera for the 1+ years it takes for him to do the job.
I had Masa in Tokyo repaint my chrome M4 last year. The cost for stripping the chrome, painting, replacing the vulcanite, and performing a complete CLA was about $550. At the current exchange rate, the price would be closer to $600. the best part was the turnaround time was only 5 days.
Shintaro's work is probably better, but it takes him more than 5 days just to answer an email. When I received my camera back from Masa it looked and worked as new. I couldn't ask for better or quicker service for the money. I'll soon be sending him my Nikon S3 to be repainted.
slight
Member
Frontman: for about 600 usd, it is good news. I was expecting a lot more - repaint itself will already cost the same money at Shintaro's place.
This being said, could we really virtually rebuild a M3 (not only cla) from scratch ie a very beaten up example?
This being said, could we really virtually rebuild a M3 (not only cla) from scratch ie a very beaten up example?
Frontman
Well-known
My M4 was about as beat-up as any you might find. I decided to get it painted black because much of the chrome was worn away, and getting it painted was easier than getting it replated. The film pressure plate showed impressions from film, no doubt it had many miles on it.
But, heavily used as it had been, the only parts which required replacement were the shutter curtains, which were beginning to look dodgy. It came back from Masa looking and working like a new camera.
But, heavily used as it had been, the only parts which required replacement were the shutter curtains, which were beginning to look dodgy. It came back from Masa looking and working like a new camera.
Flat Twin
Film Shooter
Frontman,
Do you have any pictures of your M4 after the repaint? How does the painting compare to Shintaro's work?
Simon
Do you have any pictures of your M4 after the repaint? How does the painting compare to Shintaro's work?
Simon
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Simon,
have a look in the Leica M forum. Frontmans thread on the Masa job is in there.
have a look in the Leica M forum. Frontmans thread on the Masa job is in there.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
I had one. It was an M3. No 35mm frames. It was also insanely overpriced as a functional camera. Is a BP M3 SO much better than a chrome one that it's worth the price of a repaint? I simply sold mine, without a backward look (well, except when I consider what it's worth now). I have no trouble carrying expensive cameras -- hell, I use an Alpa 12WA with the 38 Biogon -- but I am not so keen on cameras with an enormous price premium for an out-of-the-usual finish and exactly the same functionality.
If you want a funny-looking camera, what's wrong with a olive green Bessa-R2? Or by the time you've finished piddling around with a scrapper M3, why not buy a decent second-hand MP?
Mind you, I've always idly fancied a fire engine red M2...
Cheers,
R.
Flat Twin
Film Shooter
Found it! Wow that looks nice, I'm settling in to read the whole story...
Simon
Simon
apodeictic
Established
Considering the vulcanite gets replaced and it gets a full CLA, all for $600, I think I might start saving up! My M4 needs a CLA anyways and the vulcanite is starting to crack (I keep it in a case to keep it from completely falling off unexpectedly). My dream camera is a BP M4 with M3 advance/rewind lever/frame selector.
slight
Member
Hello Roger:
Yeah it's kinda funny thinking that one invest so much to get the exact same content...Still, there's something about fetishism - it is a physical feeling that you can not resist by nature.
For me, I want a BP MP; but if I do have one I will not be able to shoot with it, knowing that it's expensive and new and everything. But a cheap M3 can be very affordable, and by that I mean beaters starting from 300 USD.
A complete repair, CLA, repaint altogether, as indicated by other forum members, usually end up in the 600 USD region. New calf or goat skin leather should not exceed 70 USD. The M3 taking spool should be replaced with that of M4 too.
Now I'm looking at building the right M3 for myself, under a budget of 1000 USD (actually I expect to pay a bit more under current M surge). And what do I get? A work horse M3 with custom painting and custom leather, internally works as new too.
Official leica a la carte starts usually land in 4000 USD level. Comparing with that, I say might as well actually build your own M. The thing is finding the right camera and the right person to do it.
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Roger Hicks
Veteran
That's the bit that worries me. Very few 'CLAs' will make it 'like new', especially if it's a well worn 'beater'. For that, you want a strip, clean and overhaul, possibly with some new parts, preferably from Leica themselves. They'll do it, but not, I think, for $600. You might do better to get a better camera that could withstand a cheap CLA; send it to someone whose idea of a CLA isn't a quick sluice-out, flooding with oil and overstressing the shutter tension; and having that painted and re-covered.
Twenty or thirty years ago, when this sort of thing wasn't available 'off the shelf', I had an idle fantasy of repaints: as I mentioned earlier, fire-engine red, or maybe field grey or olive drab.
By the time it was quite easy to get this done, I realized that actually, it just wasn't worth the money or the hassle to me, even to make my M4-P loook presentable. It's that bloody awful 'black chrome': I initially mistyped 'black chrime' and was tempted to leave it. It wore so fast that a Leica dealer chum suggested sending it back under warranty.
So far this century I've had two new Leicas, MP and M9, in black paint. The MP paint is really worn and manky: the M9 appears to have much tougher paint (which is a good thing, in my book), but it's starting to go through on the corners.
Cheers,
R.
deerstalkr
Established
I fancy the idea of a 007 edition M3 with a matching MC. If I ever have extra money lying around I would very much like to find an example with a serial number that ends or contains the numbers 007. It would be painted in matte black, and only engravings that will be filled in are the numbers 007. I'm not exactly certain about all the details, but I think it would be rather nice if I had some extra money.
rogerzilla
Well-known
"Goldfinger" is on UK TV this afternoon...I can't remember whether Bond actually uses a Leica in the film though.
slight
Member
This one is not 007 but yeah protagonists from the 50s' do use a lot leica III series. It is said that JB used a M3 in Goldfinger.
Roger:
Yes the important thing is finding the right camera and the right person to do it. Will be a gamble. But in the end I guess you get what you pay for, solms rebuilt can't be compared with leisure time light CLA; also, real good paint craftsmanship can't be compared with cheap paint. To get the real job done, it might have to go to Solms first then a good painter, which will definitely cost much more than having one person to do it.
Hmmm. I guess yeah this is an interesting project but with too many potentials to turn sour. Who does Solms quality repair and Shintaro quality repaint and will be willing to do the job for less than a big eight hundred? that's the question to find out...
LeicaTom
Watch that step!
James Bond didn't use a Leica M3 in "Goldfinger", matter of fact I don't think he ever used a camera at all, except in HMSS when he took pictures of the addresses of the
"Angels Of Death" and he used a chrome Minox B and in another film he used that OO7 cigarette lighter camera, he also once had a Rolleiflex that was a tape recorder in FRWL but, as far as I know Bond NEVER used a Leica M3 in any movie at any time.
The most famous image I get from a movie with a M3 is from Bergman's 1966 movie "Persona"
Liv Ullman and Leica M3/ Rigid f2/50 Cron
Enjoy!
Tom
PS: ohh where can you find a BEATER M3 for $300????? That I would like to know
- Ohh and BTW is there anyone RELIABLE painting cameras anymore? I wanted to go that route before myself, but no one I've seen can get the paint looking right like original semi-gloss 1960's Leitz BP was and or the Japanese painters take 1 to 2 years to paint a camera and the one guy's paint is for show only, heard it was like super thin so the engravings could be filled.......too bad no one in the states has the capability to shoot a vintage style Black lacquer and get it right
"Angels Of Death" and he used a chrome Minox B and in another film he used that OO7 cigarette lighter camera, he also once had a Rolleiflex that was a tape recorder in FRWL but, as far as I know Bond NEVER used a Leica M3 in any movie at any time.
The most famous image I get from a movie with a M3 is from Bergman's 1966 movie "Persona"
Liv Ullman and Leica M3/ Rigid f2/50 Cron
Enjoy!
Tom
PS: ohh where can you find a BEATER M3 for $300????? That I would like to know
- Ohh and BTW is there anyone RELIABLE painting cameras anymore? I wanted to go that route before myself, but no one I've seen can get the paint looking right like original semi-gloss 1960's Leitz BP was and or the Japanese painters take 1 to 2 years to paint a camera and the one guy's paint is for show only, heard it was like super thin so the engravings could be filled.......too bad no one in the states has the capability to shoot a vintage style Black lacquer and get it right
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rogerzilla
Well-known
Bond uses an M3 (with a Leicameter MC, a flash and a yellow filter) in the *book* of Goldfinger. Frankly, I think the yellow filter was overdoing things for a simple blackmail shot.
Back on topic:
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Leica/page3.html
Back on topic:
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Leica/page3.html
slight
Member
Probably he's pro enough to have a yellow filter attached all the time. I do it. And I think a lot of people in the 50s' did it since there were only BW film available.
Pirate
Guitar playing Fotografer
Just for kicks, I asked Youxin if he painted Leicas, and this was his reply:
"I don't do paint. But I have a connection in Japan to do this. Job is the first rate. It will take about 6-8 months and cost is over $1,000. I take camera apart, to do CLA in my place and send parts to be painted to Japan."
I might have to look around locally for a shop that will strip the chrome, then have Youxin strip the camera and send me the parts so I can paint them myself.....
"I don't do paint. But I have a connection in Japan to do this. Job is the first rate. It will take about 6-8 months and cost is over $1,000. I take camera apart, to do CLA in my place and send parts to be painted to Japan."
I might have to look around locally for a shop that will strip the chrome, then have Youxin strip the camera and send me the parts so I can paint them myself.....
Lflex
Lflex
To OP. I understand what you want, but it is false economics. A 300USD M3 beater that is worth rebuilding does not exist - not through the known channels anyway.
I would advice against throwing good money after bad. Going the discount route with CLA and repaints will yield disapointing results.
If a black M3 is what you must have, start with a healthy camera and choose a good painter and reputable repair person - none comes cheap.
Where I live - even at the current JPY to USD exchange rate, It is possible to get nice looking ever-so-slightly worn used BP MP for the equivalent of 3200USD - and it is not that hard to find (don't know the situation where you live).
You'll spend close to that amount if you hope to get a comparable result, you'll face considerbly more risk and will spend a lot of time before you have the camera in hand.
Just my thoughts.
I would advice against throwing good money after bad. Going the discount route with CLA and repaints will yield disapointing results.
If a black M3 is what you must have, start with a healthy camera and choose a good painter and reputable repair person - none comes cheap.
Where I live - even at the current JPY to USD exchange rate, It is possible to get nice looking ever-so-slightly worn used BP MP for the equivalent of 3200USD - and it is not that hard to find (don't know the situation where you live).
You'll spend close to that amount if you hope to get a comparable result, you'll face considerbly more risk and will spend a lot of time before you have the camera in hand.
Just my thoughts.
slight
Member
Thank you very much, this is exactly what I am concerned - availability, state of the camera, and craftsmanship.
Still, even I can buy an original BP M3 at 3k usd, I'd be reluctant to use it as my main work horse; holding an antique in your hand doesn't make better photo, and most important of all, it might get destroyed in action...I never care too much about my gear (Nikon F3, M4P with 50 DR, Makina 67), and they are thrown around; sometimes they were bumped ever so slightly on the ground - but still a bump. I can't do that to a grandpa.