johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Received a Leica II today (well, I opened the package today...) and found a really nice looking Leica II from 1932 inside.
Ofcourse it was listed as 'functioning perfectly' but that proved to be untrue soon:
I planned it to hook up with a 1932 nickel Elmar, unnumbered, uncoated, no infinity lock. Seemed a perfect match.
Here is a shot of it:
Now here's the dilemma (and I guess it comes down to esthetics and love-of-Leica):
I do not need this camera, I have an M3, an M2 and a IIIc that can take this lens. But, none of those is nickel and contemporary.
Would you keep it, is the price good to begin with and how much refund would you ask for the issues listed?
Any opinion welcome, I'm trying to make up my mind on this one...! Thanks!
Ofcourse it was listed as 'functioning perfectly' but that proved to be untrue soon:
- the RF is deteriorated
- the take-up spool is missing
- the camera cannot load film, there's no room between the pressure plate and the rails that guide the curtain
I planned it to hook up with a 1932 nickel Elmar, unnumbered, uncoated, no infinity lock. Seemed a perfect match.
Here is a shot of it:
Now here's the dilemma (and I guess it comes down to esthetics and love-of-Leica):
I do not need this camera, I have an M3, an M2 and a IIIc that can take this lens. But, none of those is nickel and contemporary.
Would you keep it, is the price good to begin with and how much refund would you ask for the issues listed?
Any opinion welcome, I'm trying to make up my mind on this one...! Thanks!
Vince Lupo
Whatever
If you have a repair person who you trust, perhaps get a price from him/her to see how much it would cost to make it 'function perfectly', then negotiate from there with the seller.
Was this an eBay purchase?
Was this an eBay purchase?
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Yes, nr. 280749390029. There's more pictures there.
Steve M.
Veteran
With the issues you described, along w/ the seller lying about the camera's condition, I would want a FULL refund.
Shac
Well-known
Leica II
Leica II
Agreed - unless seller will pay for full CLA etc.
Remember if he gets away with it then he'll likely do it again
Leica II
Agreed - unless seller will pay for full CLA etc.
Remember if he gets away with it then he'll likely do it again
nikon_sam
Shooter of Film...
Send it back for a full refund including shipping both ways...
There's another one out there with your name on it...go find it...
There's another one out there with your name on it...go find it...
greyelm
Malcolm
I would send it back for a refund. I feel it was overpriced for what you got. In March I won a Black 1929 Model I to II conversion for £150 so a native II in my estimation should be less than 250 euros.
Bill58
Native Texan
The seller lied, so I would send it back too. Maybe he will be more reluctant to stretch the truth in the future.
Simon Bruxelles
Established
You overpaid but you wouldn't have any grounds for complaint had it been as the seller described, as that was your choice. But you were paying for an overhauled camera in good working condition and that is not what you got.
Personally i would send it back and ask for a full refund then I'd find a cheaper/better one and have it serviced myself.
However if you want to keep it he sold it as an overhauled camera in good working condition and that's what you are entitled to expect.
The seller is a professional dealer and will probably send it back to his repairman for the job to be done properly. The pressure plate issue and the rangefinder clearly need to be sorted out and the camera should have come with a take up spool unless otherwise stated.
It's possible he wasn't aware of these issues if he hadn't run film through it.
If you act as though you assume he wasn't you should be able to get it fixed without having to call him a liar.
Good luck.
Personally i would send it back and ask for a full refund then I'd find a cheaper/better one and have it serviced myself.
However if you want to keep it he sold it as an overhauled camera in good working condition and that's what you are entitled to expect.
The seller is a professional dealer and will probably send it back to his repairman for the job to be done properly. The pressure plate issue and the rangefinder clearly need to be sorted out and the camera should have come with a take up spool unless otherwise stated.
It's possible he wasn't aware of these issues if he hadn't run film through it.
If you act as though you assume he wasn't you should be able to get it fixed without having to call him a liar.
Good luck.
Erik van Straten
Veteran
It is very strange that the camera got new curtains but cannot load film.
Usually these old Leicas have perfect curtains, so hopefully it still has the original ones.
The serial number of the camera is beautiful.
If the rangefinder has good images adjusting should be easy.
Finding a take-up spool is not easy, but is not impossible.
It is very strange that you cannot push a film between the pressure plate and the shutter crate.
Early Leica II's are really die-hards.
If I was you, I would bring the camera to Mr. Scherpenborg in Nijmegen.
Erik.
Usually these old Leicas have perfect curtains, so hopefully it still has the original ones.
The serial number of the camera is beautiful.
If the rangefinder has good images adjusting should be easy.
Finding a take-up spool is not easy, but is not impossible.
It is very strange that you cannot push a film between the pressure plate and the shutter crate.
Early Leica II's are really die-hards.
If I was you, I would bring the camera to Mr. Scherpenborg in Nijmegen.
Erik.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Thanks for all your replies!
Gotta say I was disappointed when it arrived in less than described condition, I was looking forward to shooting this and sold off other stuff so I could travel and afford this camera at the same time.
I'm thinking that the seller (professional seller indeed) could and should have it fixed for me at no extra cost, considering he offered it as 'functioning perfect'.
Other option would be to send it to mr. Scherpenborg and have the seller refund me the price on the bill.
If I'm not mistaken I recently read in the Leica LTM forum that CRR Luton can supply take-up spools that are newly-made bur real close to the original!?
Gotta say I was disappointed when it arrived in less than described condition, I was looking forward to shooting this and sold off other stuff so I could travel and afford this camera at the same time.
I'm thinking that the seller (professional seller indeed) could and should have it fixed for me at no extra cost, considering he offered it as 'functioning perfect'.
Other option would be to send it to mr. Scherpenborg and have the seller refund me the price on the bill.
If I'm not mistaken I recently read in the Leica LTM forum that CRR Luton can supply take-up spools that are newly-made bur real close to the original!?
Erik van Straten
Veteran
Hi Johan,
I think there is a good chance Mr. Scherpenborg has a take-up spool. He has lots of spare parts, also very old.
An old Leica II is a simple affair. Most important are the rangefinder images and the condition of the curtains. If those are OK, he can make it work like new. He will tell you that those old things will never work perfectly, but he serviced my Leica II's years ago and they are still going strong.
Erik.
I think there is a good chance Mr. Scherpenborg has a take-up spool. He has lots of spare parts, also very old.
An old Leica II is a simple affair. Most important are the rangefinder images and the condition of the curtains. If those are OK, he can make it work like new. He will tell you that those old things will never work perfectly, but he serviced my Leica II's years ago and they are still going strong.
Erik.
Ljós
Well-known
Johan,
here you go: http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Leica/spool.html
CRR Luton's website is truly not a masterpiece of webdesign - could not find the spool-info via the main page, but I remembered I had seen it at some point
Greetings, Ljós
here you go: http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Leica/spool.html
CRR Luton's website is truly not a masterpiece of webdesign - could not find the spool-info via the main page, but I remembered I had seen it at some point
Greetings, Ljós
Erik van Straten
Veteran
Leica II, Elmar 35mm f/3.5, Tmax400.
Erik.
Erik.
David Hughes
David Hughes
HI,
I'd send it back and tell ebay of the problem. They are a great help when things are not as described. I had a "mint" Leica once that was badly scratched once I'd cleaned the dirt off and ebay took the money for everything from his PayPal (?) account and gave it to me. So I then had the cash back and still had the camera. We then negotiated a fairer price.
As for spools, it takes time to find the genuine article and they're not so hot when you get them, sometimes. Often the clip will be bent or loose and it needs to be tight to grip the film end.
I use one from a FED2 because it has the extending centre piece and a hook to hold the film. I got mine from alex-photo on ebay. Later on I got a mint Leica spool but it cost the proverbial "arm and a leg" as we say.
EDIT: Please see post 23 below and the bit about the extending centre is wrong. Sorry!
Regards, David
I'd send it back and tell ebay of the problem. They are a great help when things are not as described. I had a "mint" Leica once that was badly scratched once I'd cleaned the dirt off and ebay took the money for everything from his PayPal (?) account and gave it to me. So I then had the cash back and still had the camera. We then negotiated a fairer price.
As for spools, it takes time to find the genuine article and they're not so hot when you get them, sometimes. Often the clip will be bent or loose and it needs to be tight to grip the film end.
I use one from a FED2 because it has the extending centre piece and a hook to hold the film. I got mine from alex-photo on ebay. Later on I got a mint Leica spool but it cost the proverbial "arm and a leg" as we say.
EDIT: Please see post 23 below and the bit about the extending centre is wrong. Sorry!
Regards, David
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helen.HH
To Light & Love ...
Ddpends on how much You have bonded with that little barnack
And want to Deal with ALL those Issues
Personally i would send it back and continue the Search/Quest
And want to Deal with ALL those Issues
Personally i would send it back and continue the Search/Quest
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
He is not obliged to pay any third party repairs, so you'd better negotiate that beforehand - by EU law and ebay rules you can return the item and have your money back or have the item repaired by the seller, but saddling the cost of a repair of your choice on the seller is no legal option.
The seller seems high profile and has good feedback, so I think a slip by his repair people of choice is far more likely than any fraud attempt - and if that is so, he'll might want to have the incomplete repair finished by his repairer of choice (as that would be under warranty and free) rather than pay a second time for another repair man.
Sevo
OlliL
Well-known
Johan, with the issues mentioned, sorry to be honest, I don't think 350€ is a good price.
For comparison, I paid 250€ for a BP II, also 1932 built, with matching Elmar.
Rangefinder was very dim, but the camera functional.
I'd get a full refund and keep my eyes open.
Pretty sure you'll find another one.
Take a look at www.photohaus.de
They had a couple SM Leicas lately, including a IIIF with Cron for 225€ (CLA needed)
For comparison, I paid 250€ for a BP II, also 1932 built, with matching Elmar.
Rangefinder was very dim, but the camera functional.
I'd get a full refund and keep my eyes open.
Pretty sure you'll find another one.
Take a look at www.photohaus.de
They had a couple SM Leicas lately, including a IIIF with Cron for 225€ (CLA needed)
Frontman
Well-known
Simply return it and forget about it. In the shape you describe, the camera is worth about $300-$350. I bought a nicer one from a reputable dealer here in Tokyo for $450, and it included a nickle Elmar lens.
-Nash-
Established
I bought a Leica II '34 from Hollywood for £140. It was well worn out and broken (bad RF, curtains detached), but worth the repair (it came from Hollywood! Who knows what history it hides!).
350 Euros seems way too much for it's condition. If you do want it repaired you should get the seller to refund at least 50-60% to go towards CLA.
I did that with an Olympus OM3 I bought off the 'bay. Well worth sending out a message to the seller.
And yes, CRR Luton provide new spools. I bought one and they come in a thoughtful little container too. Recommended!
Someone was selling a Leica II '32 on ebay for £190. They only offered UK delivery, so you might have not seen it. I don't think they sold it, might be worth asking if they still have it?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Leica-II-...Cameras_SM&hash=item3f0e8909a9#ht_6086wt_1139
(Everytime I look at that listing I feel the urge to buy it. Must...not...buy...)
350 Euros seems way too much for it's condition. If you do want it repaired you should get the seller to refund at least 50-60% to go towards CLA.
I did that with an Olympus OM3 I bought off the 'bay. Well worth sending out a message to the seller.
And yes, CRR Luton provide new spools. I bought one and they come in a thoughtful little container too. Recommended!
Someone was selling a Leica II '32 on ebay for £190. They only offered UK delivery, so you might have not seen it. I don't think they sold it, might be worth asking if they still have it?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Leica-II-...Cameras_SM&hash=item3f0e8909a9#ht_6086wt_1139
(Everytime I look at that listing I feel the urge to buy it. Must...not...buy...)
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