Film breakng in cold weather?

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ktran

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This morning, trying to catch some dawn light over the frozen St Lawrence river, my roll of Sensia broke inside my IIIc. It just got hard to wind, and then SNAP. After letting the camera warm up from the -20C it was at the time, I used a changing bag and ripped the roll out of the camera as non-violently as I could.

Now, this isn't the first time a roll has broken on me. But every time, it's been during the winter, and it's only happened to my IIIc so far. Do any of you have any experience with "extreme" cold weather film shooting, and whether barnacks' have a film path that might cause a cold film to be more susceptible to breakage?

Now, I did manage to extract what was salvageable from the roll, and it's in the hands of the local lab now. The shots better damn well be worth it :p
 
Gotta love us Canadian photographers. Shooting when its so cold the film is snapping. Good on you! With wind chill here in Edmonton the other day it was -41. No shooting for me that day :)
 
The only piece of advice I can offer is to advance film slowly and I mean slowly. I had a roll break on me last year during a winter business trip to Happy Valley-Goose Bay. The camera was a Nikon FM2. Nothing important on the roll, but if it were, it would have been rather annoying. Also, I've been told to watch for temperature changes and condensation on the lenses. Apparently, it can be quite damaging.
 
I've ripped the sprocket holes on a Rollei35 in winter shooting up here, and now switch to something else. I mentally wrote that off as a tight radius film path to keep the unit small. Zorki4 is built like a tank for low temp work and I haven't had problems with it. Other than battery issues at extreme temperatures, I "feel" like the Contax G1's electric wind treats the film with kid gloves.

Robert
 
Sure it's not solidified lubricant that has made a sprocket hard to turn, breaking the film?
FM2s are famous for their performance in extreme weather.
 
Hmmz... solidified lubricant might make sense, but my IIIc was overhauled less than 2 years ago by Gerry Smith, so the lube ought to be new, although I don't know what lube he would have used. It was certainly cold enough to do in a few things!

So, I've still got my fingers crossed that some shots were salvageable, but until then, all I've got is digi-stuffs:


sunrise over habitat 67 by khoa_sus2, on Flickr

Maybe next time I'll bring out the FM2 to see how it does ;)
 
The few times I have used my IIIc in that kind of cold I have not had problems with the film snapping. I kept the camera under my coat and only took it out to actually shoot. If you leave it exposed the whole time while out my bet is that the film will get cold enough to break. Never had trouble with film snapping in my FM2n in the cold either but treated it the same way.

Bob
 
Really!? Never happened to me. I have shot in the cold many times (on the St. Lawrence) - out all day too.
 
The film seem more brittle in the cold and made film loading difficult. I've also had my Minolta SRT 201 shutter staying closed when trying to shoot in the snow.

Loading a IIIf under cool and dry weather, (but not especially cold) I have also found the film brittle and broke more easily. Might it be that moisture also makes a difference?

I had heard from professional photographers of "winterizing" their camera if they are going to extreme cold places. I think it has to do with using a different type of lubricant...?

Hope your film damage is minimal!
 
Must be a bit individual and of camera/film combinations. Here in Finland also down to -30 -40 Celsius degrees in the winters (at the moment only down to -5 or -10C) and the film usually dosn't snap, but of course it can happen.
 
cambolt said:
Sure it's not solidified lubricant that has made a sprocket hard to turn, breaking the film?
FM2s are famous for their performance in extreme weather.
Click to expand...

I'll lean hardest on this idea. When's the last time the IIIf was CLA'd? Modernlobricants (often by sheer virtue of youth) will gel at lower temps, making for a stiff winding.

Try starting a 30-year old Mercedes diesel with the original engine in -15f, which isn't that cold, and you'll understand!
 
I dislike neck straps for cameras. Use it only during the cold time. Instead of using a camera bag, during winter I wear my cameras around the neck (with different strap lenghts) under the winter coat, pulling it only out for a shot. Of course, if you do extended tripod shooting, this doesn't help really much.

Perhaps roll film (120/220) has fewer problems with cold weather, due to the simpler duct as in 135 film cameras?
 
Try sheet film or have as many cameras as is the number of frames you want to take - good excuse for GAS, isn´t it ;-)?
 
iandiam said:
I'll lean hardest on this idea. When's the last time the IIIf was CLA'd? Modernlobricants (often by sheer virtue of youth) will gel at lower temps, making for a stiff winding....
Click to expand...

I second that opinion. That was one of the reasons I sold my Leica III. In cold weather I use to have trouble winding it where the film never broke apart and I couldn't afford to keep it for the summer shoots only :)
I CLA'd my Leica III here in Lithuania where I do my Ms too. Problems in cold weather were always the Barnack, never the Ms (lets hope it will stay like that). I don't carry a bag anymore so my cameras are exposed to the cold weather (think -30C and around) and sometimes I am losing a bit of speed over 1/250 but that's about it.
 
iandiam said:
I'll lean hardest on this idea. When's the last time the IIIf was CLA'd? Modernlobricants (often by sheer virtue of youth) will gel at lower temps, making for a stiff winding.

Try starting a 30-year old Mercedes diesel with the original engine in -15f, which isn't that cold, and you'll understand!
Click to expand...


Hmm, the last time it was CLA'd was less than two years ago, by the Gerry Smith of Kindermann Canada, so I suspect the lube has got to be pretty modern. I broke another roll over the weekend, but this was on rewind... Man this is getting annoying :p
 
Those Barnack cameras had knobs to advance and rewind. Do you think this design applies undue tension on the film, enough to break it?

Here where I live, in IL, temperatures can drop drastically. I've taken my unmetered bodies sometimes out when I can see my breath, but never (knock on wood) experienced that with film. Mind you, we're talking M3 and M4-2 bodies.

EDIT: I recall having read somewhere online years ago that if you intend to travel to Antarctica or the Polar circle, and take a Leica with, it's good to have the lubricants replaced with a kind that can tolerate extremely low temperatures.
 
I've never had film break, and I shot a LOT of winter landscape in some pretty extreme cold when I did stock photography for a living. Waterbottles frozen solid in thirty minutes kind of cold.

I had a iiif a few years back which stiffer than any M I've used in the cold- tho I doubt that I ever tried to change film in it while out, I know I'd be cursing my clumsy frozen fingers on that take-up spool.

Have you tried rewinding a roll after the camera has warmed up? I'm wondering if there isn't something going on with the rewind lever not remaining engaged fully?
 
sepiareverb said:
I've never had film break, and I shot a LOT of winter landscape in some pretty extreme cold when I did stock photography for a living. Waterbottles frozen solid in thirty minutes kind of cold.

I had a iiif a few years back which stiffer than any M I've used in the cold- tho I doubt that I ever tried to change film in it while out, I know I'd be cursing my clumsy frozen fingers on that take-up spool.

Have you tried rewinding a roll after the camera has warmed up? I'm wondering if there isn't something going on with the rewind lever not remaining engaged fully?
Click to expand...

The IIIc is actually my primary film "shooter," these days, so I run film through it very regularly, and it winds and rewinds fine at "normal" temperatures (I do tend to shoot far less film in the winter though). The morning shot where the winding knob broke the film was about 1 hour into -20C morning temperatures. The rewind break was about 1 hr into -5 to -10C.

I'll give it another go soon enough, I think, with the camera in my coat when not shooting, and winding and rewinding *very* gently....
 
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