maddoc
... likes film again.
About three years after my Leica M4-P needed new clothes and I replaced the vulcanite with griptac, this time (last Sunday) all of a sudden larger chunks of vulcanite started flaking off my Leica M4-2 ... 
There are nicer things than a camera with flaking off vulcanite so I decided to remove it completely and replace it with something different. For my M4-P I had chosen to remove vulcanite and residuals with an agressive gel-like paint-stripper available in car-shops but that was before my son was born (no more aggressive chemicals in my apt.) and in autumn were I could still work outside on the balcony. The paint stripper method does not need much preparation of the camera, one only has to carefully avoid to bring any plastic parts into contact with the paint stripper, also inside the camera ...
The alternative route is the reverse of the vulcanite covering process, just applying heat but lots of it ! Searching the internet a little I came to the conclusion that temperatures well above 100 degrees C are required and some care has to be taken. This means that the camera core has to be removed from the shell and all remaining springs also because they could loosen their strength in the heat. As heat-source I selected an ... oven-toaster Simple but should provide the required temperatures.
Separating camera core and shell resulted in this (it took me about 1 hour and it was the first time for me ever opening a Leica ...) I also removed the spring-loaded lens-lock button, double spring-loaded frame-view lever mechanism, and frame-counter reset lever from the shell.
The camera-shell with everything removed except for the lens-mount:
frame-counter reset-lever (left), lens-mount lock-button (middle) and frame-preview lever (right)
The most interesting part, "baking" the camera-shell in the oven-toaster ... (the vulcanite blisters within minutes located close to the IR-radiators on top of the oven) After blistering started the camera shell could be removed from the oven and withing a few minutes the vulcanite easily peeled off. Due to the rapid cooling outside the oven, the heating had to be repeated one time.
The camera-shell after removing the vulcanite. The grey metal surface appeared where the hot vulcanite was peeled off (no residuals) and the brown areas are residuals of glue where the dry vulcanite had flaked off.
Re-assembling of the camera is straight forward except ... assembling of the small spring loaded parts located inside the shell require a lot of time and try and error approach. Practice would be helpful ...
This time I have chosen Aki-Asahis #4008 for recovering since he is located close by (Nagoya) and ships very fast (it took ~ 24 hours from ordering to delivery). It looks evern more similar to vulcanite than griptac but is a little more slippery.
My conclusion ? The "hot" recovering route is much faster (half a day compared to two days for the paint-stripping method) but more tools are needed and some patience to disassemble / assemble the camera. For somebody who also wants to do a DIY repair on his camera it should be the easier way.
PS: Only after the baking procedure was finished, I discovered the stripe of light-seal mounted on the rear-side of the shell... It looks like having survived the heating but I would try to remove that sealing before any baking the next time.
There are nicer things than a camera with flaking off vulcanite so I decided to remove it completely and replace it with something different. For my M4-P I had chosen to remove vulcanite and residuals with an agressive gel-like paint-stripper available in car-shops but that was before my son was born (no more aggressive chemicals in my apt.) and in autumn were I could still work outside on the balcony. The paint stripper method does not need much preparation of the camera, one only has to carefully avoid to bring any plastic parts into contact with the paint stripper, also inside the camera ...
The alternative route is the reverse of the vulcanite covering process, just applying heat but lots of it ! Searching the internet a little I came to the conclusion that temperatures well above 100 degrees C are required and some care has to be taken. This means that the camera core has to be removed from the shell and all remaining springs also because they could loosen their strength in the heat. As heat-source I selected an ... oven-toaster
Simple but should provide the required temperatures.Separating camera core and shell resulted in this (it took me about 1 hour and it was the first time for me ever opening a Leica ...) I also removed the spring-loaded lens-lock button, double spring-loaded frame-view lever mechanism, and frame-counter reset lever from the shell.
The camera-shell with everything removed except for the lens-mount:
frame-counter reset-lever (left), lens-mount lock-button (middle) and frame-preview lever (right)
The most interesting part, "baking" the camera-shell in the oven-toaster ... (the vulcanite blisters within minutes located close to the IR-radiators on top of the oven) After blistering started the camera shell could be removed from the oven and withing a few minutes the vulcanite easily peeled off. Due to the rapid cooling outside the oven, the heating had to be repeated one time.
The camera-shell after removing the vulcanite. The grey metal surface appeared where the hot vulcanite was peeled off (no residuals) and the brown areas are residuals of glue where the dry vulcanite had flaked off.
Re-assembling of the camera is straight forward except ... assembling of the small spring loaded parts located inside the shell require a lot of time and try and error approach. Practice would be helpful ...
This time I have chosen Aki-Asahis #4008 for recovering since he is located close by (Nagoya) and ships very fast (it took ~ 24 hours from ordering to delivery). It looks evern more similar to vulcanite than griptac but is a little more slippery.
My conclusion ? The "hot" recovering route is much faster (half a day compared to two days for the paint-stripping method) but more tools are needed and some patience to disassemble / assemble the camera. For somebody who also wants to do a DIY repair on his camera it should be the easier way.
PS: Only after the baking procedure was finished, I discovered the stripe of light-seal mounted on the rear-side of the shell... It looks like having survived the heating but I would try to remove that sealing before any baking the next time.
Particular
a.k.a. CNNY, disassembler
I love the baking shot!
TheHub
Well-known
Hmm, interesting and quite effective.
I posted here about an Elmar 135 with vulcanite flaking off, and I was never able to get it completely off. Instead of poisoning myself with chemicals, perhaps I should use this method.
I posted here about an Elmar 135 with vulcanite flaking off, and I was never able to get it completely off. Instead of poisoning myself with chemicals, perhaps I should use this method.
Richard G
Veteran
Great work. Your first, only, strip down. Impressive. There is a place in the UK that offers original vulcanite replacement, with a similar radical process as you pursued.
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Leica/vulcanite.html
They then check the body collimation, lens flange to film plane measurements I assume, and shim if necessary. That's my only worry with the heat - apart from getting stuck half way with the strip down or build up, of course.
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Leica/vulcanite.html
They then check the body collimation, lens flange to film plane measurements I assume, and shim if necessary. That's my only worry with the heat - apart from getting stuck half way with the strip down or build up, of course.
beyond
Jason Beyond
Nicely done. Yeah. The baking shot rocks.
maddoc
... likes film again.
Thanks for the comments !
I was worried about the heat at first also but the first test-roll showed that everything seems to be fine and actually the bigger problem might be the rf cam that has to be carefully pushed back during removal of the camera-core.
About using an Exacto chiseling blade, that might well work with the Wetzlar-made M2, M3, M4, and M5, which have a different type of vulcanite covering than the Canadian-made M4-2 & M4-P.
I was worried about the heat at first also but the first test-roll showed that everything seems to be fine and actually the bigger problem might be the rf cam that has to be carefully pushed back during removal of the camera-core.
About using an Exacto chiseling blade, that might well work with the Wetzlar-made M2, M3, M4, and M5, which have a different type of vulcanite covering than the Canadian-made M4-2 & M4-P.
MikeL
Go Fish
Nice photos of the process Doc, and the final work looked even better in person!
maddoc
... likes film again.
Richard G
Veteran
Interesting what you say about the M4-2 vulcanite. I had one and the Vulcantie seemed like Iron. I am surprised to hear of it falling off.
abearman
Member
Wow! That is an impressive job. Aki-Asahi should be proud of you.
Thank you for the detailed photos.
Thank you for the detailed photos.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Much ballsier than I my friend. I've had to do a couple of bodies, but have always sent them to Morgan of Cameraleather. He's close-by so a very short trip.
maddoc
... likes film again.
Thanks again !
It is not something I would like to do again soon, though ... Bob, that is a big advantage to have it properly done by Morgan.
It is not something I would like to do again soon, though ... Bob, that is a big advantage to have it properly done by Morgan.
helen.HH
To Light & Love ...
Great Story
Lovely Finale ...All Dressed Up... a Beauty
When i changed the skin on my M2 ... I used a delicate small chisel and some denatured alcohol ... Came off with fair amount of Ease / about half hour of chipping away and cleaning with the denatured
Lovely Finale ...All Dressed Up... a Beauty
When i changed the skin on my M2 ... I used a delicate small chisel and some denatured alcohol ... Came off with fair amount of Ease / about half hour of chipping away and cleaning with the denatured
roundg
Well-known
Very impressive. Now I know why your ID called "maddoc"
I use painter remover. And it's quite easy for me.
I use painter remover. And it's quite easy for me.