Philosophical question

[FrankS]

Art can be created via an instinctual, as well as a conceptual process.
Agree/disagree?
An artist need not be self-conscious, or does he/she?
In basic terms, can someone create art without intending to?
In photographic terms, think about that young French boy who photographed his nanny jumping down some outdoor steps.

 

[Sparrow]

I don't like rules generally, but I feel uncomfortable with art by serendipity ... it feels wrong somehow ... I think it has to be a conscious and human process

 

[FrankS]

I don't like rules generally, but I feel uncomfortable with art by serendipity ... it feels wrong somehow ... I think it has to be a conscious and human process

Okay, but what about that French boy and his nanny?

 

[seakayaker1]

Art can be created via an instinctual, as well as a conceptual process.
Agree/disagree?

agree


An artist need not be self-conscious, or does he/she?

need not be self-conscious


In basic terms, can someone create art without intending to?

Yes


In photographic terms, think about that young French boy who photographed his nanny jumping down some outdoor steps.

Some would have you believe that Art is a like a religion, with one set of rules, and if you are not believing and following . . . . . .


If you create something by plan or by accident and it ends up on your or someone else's mantel, wall, or wherever and you or someone else calls it art then who am I to disagree.

 

[FrankS]

That's the one, thanks!

He was aware that he was seeing something fun, but was he thinking and self aware that he was making art?

 

[TXForester]

Okay, but what about that French boy and his nanny?

I was hoping she was like the nanny in the Queen song. 😀

I think art can be created in both ways (with awareness at some level) but not by accident. Like a chimp throwing paint on a cavas.

 

[Sparrow]

Okay, but what about that French boy and his nanny?

I think there has to be intent, and while the finished thing need not be what was first conceived it has to be more than random happenstance.

If not why should driftwood not be Sculpture or a playful cat Dance?

 

[zauhar]

Frank, in my view creativity does not mean consciously following formal rules. For example, a good composition might result from intuitively selecting an angle that "feels right", or it might be made by someone applying rules they learned in school.

However, a random collection of objects cannot be a "composition" unless a human observer sees and apprehends it.

That said, I wonder how far back formal rules go? I will bet it is farther than people suppose...

Randy

 

[benlees]

In many cases photography is both- intention and serendipity- at the same time. That's why editing is so important. You might leave the house with your camera on your shoulder thinking "Today art will be made!" And sure enough, after you look at your haul, there are indeed a few keepers, but not the ones you thought. Isn't this a big reason for lugging the damn camera thing around?🙂

Winogrand (love him or hate him) is a great example of this because other people get to do the editing. Still art, no?

 

[Matus]

To me art may "happen" when we do something we really put our soul into (and to have something to say/show) - and do ti really well (mostly some type of craft needs to be mastered before are can be created, though not always - sometimes we just get lucky [that would count for the instinctual pat] 😉).

Today we see a lot of attempts to create something artistic (for whatever reason - to be different, to make money, to win attention ...) - people something put a lot of effort to doing something, but that does not warrant the results. Just to be diligent and have "art" on your mind is not enough.

Tomorrow I may come with a different "definition" though, so do not loose your sleep over this one if you find it wrong.

 

[seakayaker1]

I think art can be created in both ways (with awareness at some level) but not by accident.

A serious question . . . . .

If the artist is a addict or alcoholic and has created work while under the influence or in a black out, is there awareness? . . . . . is there conscious decisions and awareness made during the creation process?

 

[Sparrow]

A serious question . . . . .

If the artist is a addict or alcoholic and has created work while under the influence or in a black out, is there awareness? . . . . . is there conscious decisions and awareness made during the creation process?

... perhaps the conscious decision was to imbibe the intoxicant, and the art sprang from that?

 

[pggunn]

Frank, in my view creativity does not mean consciously following formal rules. For example, a good composition might result from intuitively selecting an angle that "feels right", or it might be made by someone applying rules they learned in school.

Randy

I think Randy is on to something here. I believe intuition and the subconscious play a very important role in art. In fact, I think they are essential to art. Art formed by intention and formal rules alone most likely will be cold and sterile and lacking something, maybe soul is the word I'm looking for.

 

[Contarama]

Well there has to be some sort of unique special quality about art and the artist or else everyone would be a Da Vinci and that is just not the case. And what about elephants, dolphins, and monkeys some folks say that they create art..are they (the animals) conceptualizing something when they do this?

 

[shadowfox]

"Art" can happen anytime, with or without human intervention.

"Work of art" can only happen when a person put some effort to produce it (happy accidents counts as effort).

"Published art" can only happen if a work of art has been shown to another person (large crowd or a single person, doesn't matter).

"Commercial art" happens when a piece of published art is introduced into a market.

 

[d_ross]

A serious question . . . . .

If the artist is a addict or alcoholic and has created work while under the influence or in a black out, is there awareness? . . . . . is there conscious decisions and awareness made during the creation process?

Jackson Pollack is a classic example of this.

 

[Roger Hicks]

But when does the intent need to be added? R. Mutt is the classic example. "Found" art can include our own pictures. And certainly in things that merely happen to attract our attention. For an example of intent added after the initial picture, but then enlarged upon as deliberate series of pictures, look at Table 5, Table 6, Table 7 and Table 10 about 5/6 of the way through http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/arles 2009.html

As for "under the influence", we are all under the influence of something at all times. Boredom; religion; alcohol; a manic high; who can presume to say that the person 'under the influence' is not 'the actual person'?

Cheers,

R.

 

[d_ross]

Everything is, or can be art. As Robert raushenburg once said " if you cant walk around the city block you live on and find enough stuff to make art your not looking hard enough" He was looking for objects to incorporate physically into his work, but that theory applies to photography very well. but without thinking about finding art, well you wouldn't see it.

Therefore serendipity can play a part in making art, especially with photography, but without a considered and thoughtful approach to ones work, that serendipity may produce nothing or rubbish. So I would say art can be created via an instinctual process, but not without an underlying conceptual process.

 

[Michael Markey]

I think Randy is on to something here. I believe intuition and the subconscious play a very important role in art. In fact, I think they are essential to art. Art formed by intention and formal rules alone most likely will be cold and sterile and lacking something, maybe soul is the word I'm looking for.

I feel this to be true.
However it is difficult to "switch off" the intention even if , like myself, one has no formal training or preconception.
It needs to flow from the emotions without hindrance.

 

[TXForester]

A serious question . . . . .

If the artist is a addict or alcoholic and has created work while under the influence or in a black out, is there awareness? . . . . . is there conscious decisions and awareness made during the creation process?

I can't say with certainty, but I'd guess there would be some awareness, but it would be dulled by the drug/booze. Maybe any inate talent or learned skills go on autopilot.