Yashica 24 Owners - 120 Film

pauls52

pauls52

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This is more a collector than a user question but you may find the background interesting anyway. Questions have been asked on a number of forums about the possibility of shooting 120 in the Yashica 24 which according to the manual, the label inside the camera and advertising blurb is a 220 camera only.

Various answers have been given including apparent success at just loading 120 and going for it (one guy used some sort of sticky labels/notes as shims for the pressure plate). It has been noticed that some cameras at least have both a 220 and a 120 film start mark (related to my question later) and it has sometimes been claimed that cameras with the 120 mark can be used unmodified for 120. Unfortunately, this is only half the story, regardless of whether anyone has experienced success this way (possible, this is more about the pressure on the film with/without paper backing than any physical restriction).

Whether the camera has the mark or not, to use 120 correctly requires the use of a Yashica accessory back for the Yashica 24 which has a big external label that says, "12 EX. 120 FILM ONLY YASHICA". Whilst it does not appear to be mentioned in any versions of 24 manuals fellow collectors have seen, the back is clearly identified as an alternative in the official Yashica assembly charts. I have recently been shown a photo of one fitted to a camera, an Australian collector has just bought one on sale in the UK and I am aware that a US collector has two of these backs (at least one might be for sale).

What we (two Aussies and a Yank) would like to find out is whether the 120 start mark appeared in all Yashica 24 cameras and if not, which serial number did it first appear with. What we are asking Yashica 24 owners is to let us know your serial number (you can make the last three digits "xxx") and whether the 120 start mark is there. I know that this is not a common user camera but if anything useful comes of this, it will eventually appear on my web page at http://tlr-cameras.com/Japanese/Paul_Sokk_Yashica_6x6_History.htm

Thank you,
Paul
 
I'm the guy with the yellow sticky notes as shims for the pressure plate, as shown on Flickr.


Yashica24 Showing 120 Start arrow by sreed2006, on Flickr

The serial number on the Yashica 24 is L6090978.

I had not heard of the accessory back for 120 film before. I would be quite interested in what the differences are between that back and the standard back. I would also be really interested in whether or not the sticky notes are required to shim the pressure plate for 120. Maybe the collector would be willing to loan me the accessory plate long enough for me to make some measurements (if I promise to be extra especially careful to not damage it)?

Changing backs is not just real convenient. The hinges are part of the side-plates at the top of the camera, and it looks to me like you have to remove those plates in order to remove the back. It's not something you could do on the fly during a photo shoot.

And, thank you, Paul, for doing this research. There are several heated discussions about this trivial subject on the web, aren't there?
 
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Actually, something i've never understood:
Why do you need to change the 220 pressure plate to the 120 type?
I mean, 120 to 220 i would understand: not enough pressure would be applied on the thinner 220 film with the 120 plate.
But a 220 plate is springy, and if you put the thicker 120 "film" (i.e. film+paper) it will just push the pressure plate back a bit more.. isn't it? Or is the spring too strong and will damage the film?
 
Pherdinand, the ideal is that the film is not actually being pressed against the film gate. It should 'float between the pressure plate and the film gate. So the spacing is designed to remove the common curl of film and backing paper but not to push the film hard to the metal frame of the film gate.

I assume that this is because of the potential of scratching and other marks?
 
I would think that you could just replace the pressure plate with one from a 120 camera. On my older -Mat the plate is held by two screws that you can see on the back of the camera. The leatherette on the later ones may cover those screws, but I understand the leatherette on them is removable, unlike the vulcanite used on the earlier cameras.
 
Using a 120 pressure plate might work, if all other factors line up.

All you really need to do is add a small shim to the four tabs that rest on the outer edges of the film path. On a camera like the 124-G, when you move the pressure plate up and down, you are simply moving different thickness tabs into place. You can feel the height difference on these pressure plates. Measuring the heights would tell you the actual difference. You can also measure the different offsets on film inserts for a camera like the Bronica ETR series.

Something like post-it note material is probably pretty close. Using actual backing paper might seem like a good idea, but the tape to hold it in place is going to add .003-.007 inches to something that is only about .008 inches to begin with.

The nice thing about this shimming is that it is outside of the film path so not subject to motion and sliding film.
 
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sreed2006 said:
I'm the guy with the yellow sticky notes as shims for the pressure plate, as shown on Flickr.


Yashica24 Showing 120 Start arrow by sreed2006, on Flickr

The serial number on the Yashica 24 is L6090978.

I had not heard of the accessory back for 120 film before. I would be quite interested in what the differences are between that back and the standard back.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the serial number. When the Australian collector receives his back and the US guy is back on deck next week, I'll ask them both about the differences between the 220 and 120 backs. The other posters are probably on the money in this regard as well.

I would assume that the only difference between the Yashica 24 120 back and other 120 backs is the external warning label so you know which back is fitted. In terms of swapping over, its only 3 screws but not something that you would want to do too often - they weren't designed for that.

The presumption is that people brought the 24 thinking that 24 shots was great (and probably, for wedding photographers it was) but the reality was that 220 was not as easy to handle but worse, film choices didn't live up to expectations. Yashica may have responded to complaints, or maybe the camera was designed this way from the start (less likely, otherwise it would probably have been reflected in the user manual). Most people who changed to the 120 back probably did for good. However, because so few people have been aware of the option and I hadn't seen any converted cameras before last week, I doubt that this was a popular conversion - perhaps the backs were simply too expesive?

Regards,
Paul
 
Dan Daniel said:
<snip> On a camera like the 124-G, when you move the pressure plate up and down, you are simply moving different thickness tabs into place. You can feel the height difference on these pressure plates. Measuring the heights would tell you the actual difference. <snip>
Click to expand...

Opened up my 124-G and looked at the pressure plate, and indeed the tabs on the pressure plate are at different heights for the 120 and 220 film positions. The height difference is less than 0.010 inches - probably the thickness of 120 backing paper.

So, it must be that the optional 120 back for the Yashica 24 has tabs that are slightly different than the tabs for the standard 220 back. Because the 124-G uses the same pressure-plate-spring in both 12 or 24 exposure settings, there probably is not a difference in how much pressure the 120 and 220 backs exert.

Just to be silly: the Yashica 24 was made in 1965-1967. The Post-It Notes were invented later. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-it_note
 
Hi, just came across this post. Don't know if anyone's still interested, but my Yashica 24 has L6120070 as a serial number, no start marker for 120 film. I fiddled long enough with it to be able to put up my own marker. It turned out to be quite close (2-3mm)to where Yashica put it (but obviously I didn't have this information at the time).
I use it mainly with Acros 100. This film plus backing seems to be thinner and smoother than the Ilford I use, passes through without problems. I'll keep my eyes open for the proper back though, just for the fun of it....
 
Hi Ishofstra. Still interested, thanks for the reply and serial number. This is the first example that definitely does not have the mark. The serial number is 1/3 to 1/2 into the range so that is a bit unusual unless there are a lot more cameras without the mark.

"Normal" models have the start mark as cast red triangles on each side in the middle of the back. The 24 has the cast red start marks each side near the base of the back. The examples I have seen have a narrow sticker along the left side pointing to the 220 start mark with the words "220 Film Start Mark". Inside the film feed chamber itself is usually a metallic sticker, also on the left, with a red triangle and words indicating that it is the 120 start mark. Both stickers are shown in the standard assembly diagrams for this model but only the 220 one is shown in the user manual.

Would you mind checking to see whether the 220 sticker is still there and also whether there is any evidence of something having been stuck to the left side of the film chamber near the film spool? My point about the 220 sticker is why need one if there is only one mark?

I have a new web site, www.yashicatlr.com, but the server has just gone down (pay peanuts and all that). When back up, you can follow the links to the 66 Models page and then Yashica 24 from the list. A reasonably up to date and always up version can be found here: http://home.exetel.com.au/yashica_tlr/66Models.html#yashica24

I will probably update the relevant sections to make the start marks a little clearer.

Regards,

Paul
 
You might get some answers here.
There's a regular reseller on EB** of all things Yashica and especially TLR
models, based in Perth. He is VERY knowledgable about Yashicas, usually has lots of TLR's in great condition for sale and can probably give you some good information. He's very nice to deal with (or was when I bought a 124G from him a few years back) and is a hidden resource for Yashica and Mamiya TLR owners. His name is Peter Pickering and his email is (or was) <admin@shenzhenangel.com>. If that doesn't find him, do a search for the cameras on the EB** site and you'll find him.
Don't expect "bargains". His stuff is first rate and he doesn't handle rubbish.
 
Yashica 24

Yashica 24

Hi Pauls,
I will try to send some photo's which I took with my phone. The first shows you the back; lower left corner the sticker. This is better visible in the second photo. The third photo is the spot where you would expect a 120 sticker. There was none when I got the camera and no trace of glue residu. If the previous owner removed the sticker he would have had to use sticker glue remover (which is what I would have done, but then I would not remove such a sticker in the first place). Hope this helps...
 
Ok, how does this work, lemme see....

I give up. I have three jpegs on my computer and no clue as to how I'm supposed to upload these. Hate digital.
 
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Sorry, been tied up for a few days. Thanks for the info and photos. I can say that in general, it apears that the Yashica 24 120 start mark was present from the beginning or at least near the begining of production. Whether it was ever present in your camera is a different matter. The fact that the sticker pointing to the 220 mark is present makes me wonder why it was needed if there was only one mark? It may have been simply a manufacturing glitz or maybe there was a bunch that didn't receive the sticker but there is no way to tell at the moment, not unless more turn up. Thanks again for the input, if I find out anything else, I'll post it here.
 
Leigh Youdale said:
You might get some answers here.
There's a regular reseller on EB** of all things Yashica and especially TLR
models, based in Perth. He is VERY knowledgable about Yashicas, usually has lots of TLR's in great condition for sale and can probably give you some good information. He's very nice to deal with (or was when I bought a 124G from him a few years back) and is a hidden resource for Yashica and Mamiya TLR owners. His name is Peter Pickering and his email is (or was) <admin@shenzhenangel.com>. If that doesn't find him, do a search for the cameras on the EB** site and you'll find him.
Don't expect "bargains". His stuff is first rate and he doesn't handle rubbish.
Click to expand...

Thank you for that advice. I am aware of Peter and yes, he knows his stuff. However, some time ago, he made it clear that he viewed the website I was associated with at the time as "the competition". Presumably, my own website now falls into the same category. Besides, to ask a question requires membership of his club at $20 per year and each question requires a $7 "ticket" http://www.yashicacameraclub.com/page4/. If I was convinced that I would find out more than I know already, then maybe I would think about it.
 
Yashica 24

Yashica 24

Hi, My 24 is serial no. L7100872, and it does have a 120 start label where you say it should. I actually did not notice it before so thanks for the info. I did shoot some 120 in it (some time ago), used the 220 mark and did not have any problem. Bruce
 
Thanks Stonecutter. I'll add your camera to my database. Like you, most people don't seem to have trouble shooting 120 with their standard Yashica 24s. I think the differences in pressure plate settings must be subtle and perhaps modern films are different in their specs in a way which makes life easier.
 
Hi Paul,

I acquired a Yashica 24 today with serial number L5121471. It appears identical in every respect to L6090978, including the four silver bars on the hood to the left and right of the serial number, and the "120 Film Start Mark" sticker in the film chamber.

This one has a jammed shutter (the self-timer was used when the flash lever was set to M).

Other than different serial numbers on the hood and lenses, and the difference in wear, they are identical twins as far as I can tell.
 
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