Leica LTM I'm After A Barnack

[Brian Legge]

In the Leica line, only the IIIg has framelines.

None of the early Canons (ie before the IV line / Canon P / etc) have framelines. None of the early FSU bodies do either.

Use an external finder for other focal lengths. The early Canon bodies let you 'zoom' the finder in but without framing this can be difficult to use (unless you are using it for extra precision). Most of the early classic bodies are best suited for 50mm lens (or wider with an external finder).

I'm a fan of the early Canon rangefinders (like the IVSB). They are slightly larger than the Leicas but still smaller than the Canon P/Leica Ms. They have a unified finder (the same window for both composition and focus) and they allow you to zoom in the finder for precision which works nicely with an external finder.

If I were starting over, I'd look for either a Leica IIIc or a Canon IVSB/IVSB/IID2. While some have had good luck with FED/Zorki bodies, the cost (with service) is high enough that I'd pay a bit more and take the other bodies over them.

On the lens front, if you are looking for a compact setup the the Elmar is the classic. I've found Russian Industar 22/50s basically as good as long as they're clean and as long as it focuses correctly the body. If you can find a good one that is clean, known to be calibrated correctly and doesn't wobble its one of the best deals around. Most of the FSU glass can be excellent.

Personally I like the uncoated Summar. It larger and has a bit of a distinct look but I think its great. There are a lot of excellent options depending on the sort of look you want.

 

[Vics]

Congrats. Does your IIF have a top shutter speed of 1/1000th? Earlier versions had only 1/500th.

Had a IIF for about a week. It got day-traded in an art deal.

Cal

Yes, it has 1/1000. It's quite late. 1955.

 

[denizg7]

i really wanna try a barnack model..

the thing with them is you have to buy one to try one because no one rents the, and I don''t feel like spending 600 on something if in case i don't like it at all.

to me though they look better than any M.

raid with external viewfinder , how would you go on about focusing with a leica standard , use zone focusing and guess? since no rangefinder patch..

i know usually there are two seperate windows for both to be matched

 

[denizg7]

Hey Raid,

Does the image output of a LEica Barnack model and a Soviet copy ever become similarly matched?

Can someone send me a picture comparision between a barnack model and a soviet copy of it?

thanks

 

[FrankS]

i really wanna try a barnack model..

the thing with them is you have to buy one to try one because no one rents the, and I don''t feel like spending 600 on something if in case i don't like it at all.

to me though they look better than any M.

raid with external viewfinder , how would you go on about focusing with a leica standard , use zone focusing and guess? since no rangefinder patch..

i know usually there are two seperate windows for both to be matched

If you attend one of the local photographers' meetings, someone is likely to come with a camera of this type for you to handle.


Everyone needs a screw mount Leica.

 

[denizg7]

If you attend one of the local photographers' meetings, someone is likely to come with a camera of this type for you to handle.


Everyone needs a screw mount Leica.

Yeah I am definitely going to the next meeting after this one , so if i get to try a barnack , they can try my m6 or have a quick exchange

 

[Vincent.G]

He typically has most of the ii and iii types for sale at reasonable prices and if not he can "piece" one together. I got a sharkskin iiic for $300 a few months ago, and a decent lens can easily be found for $200 (Youxin might even have one)

Thanks kokoshawnuff! I will contact Youxin. Looks like US$500 is do-able!

Vincent,
Another way you could scratch that itch would be to have a good Barnack body and add it an industar 55mm 2.8.
These lenses seem better (more consistent) than the rest of the fsu's, and they are dirt cheap (they still have a rough feeling like the rest of them) until you find the money for a Canon of some kind...

Samuel, thanks for the recommendations. Your suggestions definitely has widen my search and opened up many options for me. Thanks so much!

Vincent,

KEH has a black paint Leica III (Model F) that is all brassed out, even the nickel knobs are brassed out. The price is around $475.00 if I remember correctly. Nothing like real old black paint Leicas, especially brassed out versions.

Add a CLA/overhaul...

Add a Nickel lens...or two, or three...

Anyways LTM can drive you crazy. The lenses have mucho character.

Cal

Addition: Price at KEH is $499.00.

Hi Cal! Black paint is certainly drool-worthy!

But I cannot splurge all that budget on a black paint body and left with nothing for a lens!

Add my agreement to Frontman's comment. I've owned numerous Barnack Leicas over the years... and have sold them all.

I have held onto my little Zorki 1d, a clone of the early Leica II. Mine has functioned perfectly for years. I have added a CV finder to use with the 35mm J-12 lens that I love.

You can see it here:http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=128813&ppuser=20714

You can find similar cameras - serviced and ready to go at Oleg'sfor about $100, and that's with a 50mm lens... Look for a Fed !, or a Zorki 1. His site is: www.okvintagecamera.com/

Oleg is one of the "good guys" in the Ukraine. I've dealt with him for over 10 years.

Thanks for the links and your input. Really appreciate it!

 

[Vincent.G]

Canon P is more like an M body (size-wise and viewfinder-wise) with a screw lens mount...not really a Barnack experience.

If you shop right you can get something for less than $500, and get your money back if it's not what you were expecting. It's almost certain a CLA will be required if you go the ebay route. Also be prepared for brittle vulcanite. What may appear to be perfect in photos may disintegrate during shipping.

Thanks for sharing. I will most likely replace the vulcanite like I did for my M4.

Another option w/in your price range would be Canon IVSB2 - it competed directly agt the Leica IIIf in the mid-1950s and is a beautiful Barnack clone. I like mine as much as the beautiful IIIc I purchased here a few years ago. Youxin Ye also works on the old Camon bottomloaders like the IVSB2.

I will keep this in mind. I will check with Youxin to see what he has on hand and whether he has any recommendations.

To give you an idea...Leica IIIc on left, Canon IVSB2 on the right:


Bottom-loader bliss by bingley0522, on Flickr

Both are Real Beauties.

from KEH:
http://www.keh.com/camera/Leica-Screwmount-Camera-Bodies/1/sku-LS02060000567P?r=FE

the RF is off, but if it's just an alignment problem, it's a DIY...
(then again, it's so easy to adjust, why didn't they do it themselves??)

Thanks Samuel but I am not a very hands-on person with camera jobs. I might mess things up!

 

[Vincent.G]

Go after a Barnack, you won't be disappointed. Take your time, look around. Myself, after searching for a while, I found a leica ii in a shop. It was affordable (about $150), cosmetically a bit beat up, but all things working well. I then combined it with a fine industar 50 (for another $30). After shooting that for a few months, you can decide whether or not you like it and if you want to complete the package with an elmar or summar or etc... (I think the collapsible lenses are the pinnacle of the barnacks).

I prefer the 1930s Barnack over the later ones. I know the IIIf and IIIc are the go to recommendations, but I say: check out the II (especially if you don't care for speeds between B and 1/20, which I rarely miss) or the III/a/b. The bodies are more compact, seem denser to me, and usually cheaper, since everyone wants a IIIf and IIIc...

Thank you very much. I will definitely keep my options open.

Lovely!

My IIf just arrived. I can't believe how TINY it is! It looks and feels new. VF is small but brighter than my M3. Lens arrives tomorrow. I think the OP will be very pleased with any Barnack!

You lucky guy!
Enjoy your Barnack!

 

[Vincent.G]

Same here, except for my 1936 IIIa, which was my first Leica (bought 1969 when I was 19), and which I therefore keep for sentimental reasons. I've had A, II, III, IIIa, IIIb, IIIc, IIIf, IIIg: in some cases, more than one of each. I've even handled IIId (fake) and (reall) FF/GG. I've not bought a new srew-mount Leica in 30 years or more.

On the other hand I have five Ms (M2, M4-P, MP, M8, M9), which I use when I actually want to take pictures, rather than playing with ancient fine machinery. I've also had M3 (two or three) and M8.2 but there's a limit to how many Leicas one can use even occasionally.

Going on my own my experience, those who praise Russian copies above Leicas must have had very bad Leicas or praeternaturally good Feds. And yes, I've had Feds too.

Cheers,

R.

Hi Roger! Looks like you already had your fun with that long list of Barnacks you owned.

Actually all the cameras I have are used to take pictures. Just that different cameras makes me want to take different pictures.

Here is my standard :

That looks special!

In the Leica line, only the IIIg has framelines.

None of the early Canons (ie before the IV line / Canon P / etc) have framelines. None of the early FSU bodies do either.

Use an external finder for other focal lengths. The early Canon bodies let you 'zoom' the finder in but without framing this can be difficult to use (unless you are using it for extra precision). Most of the early classic bodies are best suited for 50mm lens (or wider with an external finder).

I'm a fan of the early Canon rangefinders (like the IVSB). They are slightly larger than the Leicas but still smaller than the Canon P/Leica Ms. They have a unified finder (the same window for both composition and focus) and they allow you to zoom in the finder for precision which works nicely with an external finder.

If I were starting over, I'd look for either a Leica IIIc or a Canon IVSB/IVSB/IID2. While some have had good luck with FED/Zorki bodies, the cost (with service) is high enough that I'd pay a bit more and take the other bodies over them.

On the lens front, if you are looking for a compact setup the the Elmar is the classic. I've found Russian Industar 22/50s basically as good as long as they're clean and as long as it focuses correctly the body. If you can find a good one that is clean, known to be calibrated correctly and doesn't wobble its one of the best deals around. Most of the FSU glass can be excellent.

Personally I like the uncoated Summar. It larger and has a bit of a distinct look but I think its great. There are a lot of excellent options depending on the sort of look you want.

Thanks for sharing your views!

 

[raid]

i really wanna try a barnack model..

the thing with them is you have to buy one to try one because no one rents the, and I don''t feel like spending 600 on something if in case i don't like it at all.

to me though they look better than any M.

raid with external viewfinder , how would you go on about focusing with a leica standard , use zone focusing and guess? since no rangefinder patch..

i know usually there are two seperate windows for both to be matched

The very old Leicas had no RF capability. It is zone focusing.

 

[raid]

Hey Raid,

Does the image output of a LEica Barnack model and a Soviet copy ever become similarly matched?

Can someone send me a picture comparision between a barnack model and a soviet copy of it?

thanks

Images are not affected by camera type. A well functioning FSU camera works as well as a well functioning Leica. It is the lens that matters.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Hi Roger! Looks like you already had your fun with that long list of Barnacks you owned.

Actually all the cameras I have are used to take pictures. Just that different cameras makes me want to take different pictures.

Dear Vincent,

Highlight: True enough. But 40 years ago, they were cheaper and (of course) 40+ years newer, so more reliable. There were also MANY more screw Leicas lurking in camera stores, including some very rare stuff: I bought a unique fat barrel Elmar (* and 'a' in the serial number) for GBP 11:10s in about 1970; a Stereoly and viewer for GB 25 in about '72; and other goodies over the years such as a grey Luftwaffe IIIc, a IIIg, a tri-lens turret and a black paint M3. Most, I sold at a profit: sometimes, quite a handsome profit, such as swapping the tri-lens turret (GBP 100 in maybe 1980) for a new 90/2 Summicron.

But none of this had much to do with taking pictures. I got better pictures, more consistently, with non-collector Ms, so I got rid of my screw collection. In fact, I think one of the reasons I've improved at all is that I spent less and less time playing with old cameras and as a result was able to concentrate more on photography.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Vincent.G]

There is an opportunity to get a user IIIf RD + CLA and a good Summar lens all for US $500.

Is there anything crucial I have left out e.g. an external VF? Since there is no 50mm framelines, is it necessary to get an external VF? Or is it enough to use the VF of the camera for shooting a 50mm lens? Sorry for this silly question.

 

[helen.HH]

No External VF is necessary ...you have your focusing Window & your Composing Window which is for a 50

I even shoot a 35 lens on my Barnack with no trouble
even though it's a 50 pov

 

[FrankS]

No External VF is necessary ...you have your focusing Window & your Composing Window which is for a 50

I even shoot a 35 lens on my Barnack with no trouble
even though it's a 50 pov

BUT, an external viewfinder for 50mm is SO much bigger/more comfortable to use than the camera's viewfinder which is somewhat squinty. VERY worthwhile IMO.

 

[Vincent.G]

No External VF is necessary ...you have your focusing Window & your Composing Window which is for a 50

I even shoot a 35 lens on my Barnack with no trouble
even though it's a 50 pov

Thanks Helen!

I Love Your Shots with the Summar!

 

[helen.HH]

Well Frank you may be right...
But it's too Big & bulky for me ...ruins the Barnack experience
It Keeps me on my Toes working between the two windows

Thanks Vincent...the summar is GREAT on the Barnack
Now I'm experimenting with my 35 color skopar

 

[Frontman]

Add my agreement to Frontman's comment. I've owned numerous Barnack Leicas over the years... and have sold them all.

I have held onto my little Zorki 1d, a clone of the early Leica II. Mine has functioned perfectly for years. I have added a CV finder to use with the 35mm J-12 lens that I love.

You can see it here:http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=128813&ppuser=20714

You can find similar cameras - serviced and ready to go at Oleg'sfor about $100, and that's with a 50mm lens... Look for a Fed !, or a Zorki 1. His site is: www.okvintagecamera.com/

Oleg is one of the "good guys" in the Ukraine. I've dealt with him for over 10 years.

I have dealt with Oleg, and have only positive experiences with him. I have also had service my Contax II, he did a superb job, and for a fraction of what everyone else charges. If you get a camera from him, you can be sure it will work well.

 

[Vincent.G]

Well Frank you may be right...
But it's too Big & bulky for me ...ruins the Barnack experience
It Keeps me on my Toes working between the two windows

Thanks Vincent...the summar is GREAT on the Barnack
Now I'm experimenting with my 35 color skopar

That was partly my concern if I have to attached an external VF - might be a tad bulky but I am not sure.

Would there be a problem using the Barnack VF if I wear glasses?