Nikon F4/F5 questions

[msbarnes]

1. Is the F4 the first Nikon with a vertical release? I'm really attracted to the vertical release feature. Anyone not like it for whatever reason?
2. Are the manual focusing screens difficult/hard to find?
3. Is it common for the AF to go out of wack on these cameras?
4. Anyone use a universal arcaswiss L bracket/plate on any of their F cameras (F-F6)?

I'm looking for a Nikon to use for portraits so I don't mind the bulk/heft.

My issue with my current Nikon (F) is that there is no good MLU implimentation. I had thought about the F2, and then the F5, and then the F4s.

F2: F with MLU
F4s: vertical release, and built-in motor drive.
F5: vertical release, built-in motor drive, and non-rare custom L bracket.

There are other features, sure, but those are the ones that I like. I don't need to skinny the camera down, I don't need metering, I don't need a metal/mechanical camera (although I'm partial towards mech), and I'm open to MF and AF (although I'm partial towards MF).

My feeling is that the F2 is the best mechanical/simple Nikon and that the F5 is the best autofocus. The F3 and F4 are in between depending on features.

 

[sevo]

1. Is the F4 the first Nikon with a vertical release? I'm really attracted to the vertical release feature.

Sort of - it lives on the accessory battery grip that makes a F4 a F4S. If you travel lighter (and with slower motor) there is no extra release. And a screw-in release knob for the cable socket on earlier F series camera motors existed, which was quite similar in effect...

2. Are the manual focusing screens difficult/hard to find?

The F4 K screen is still somewhat common - all other screens with focus aids are rare indeed (and usually far from affordable when you run into them).

3. Is it common for the AF to go out of wack on these cameras?

Not that I am aware of. It certainly did not on any I've owned or rented.

 

[farlymac]

The F4/s/e wasn't the first vertical release that Nikon put out (MD-1 with an MR-1 Shutter Release attachment, used up through the MD-12 model), but the first one that was built into the handle. The F4 is the most compatible of all the bodies when it comes to lens selection, being able to use almost every single Nikkor/Nikon version since the invention of the F mount. It even has a lever for coupling the old non/AI lenses to the metering system.

PF

 

[msbarnes]

5. How do you load the film? I'm not sure what this is called but with my F I have to manually crank the leader but with the F100 which I had once used, you just line up the leader and close the back.

6. Is MLU easy to use? I would assume so but I don't want to have any "gotcha" moments like I did with my F, haha.

 

[ChrisLivsey]

You don't say what lenses you are intending using but it sounds as if MF is on the menu. The F4 will run all the lenses from pre-AI manual to current G auto focus. None of the other bodies will do this, from stock. The F5 was upgradable to use pre-AI but I have not seen one so modded offered for sale for a long time.
There were/are 13 screens (not counting the G sub variants) for the F4 reduced from the 23 of the F3, some are easy to find others rare. I find the std B screen is fine for manual, they generally run around £20 in the UK at dealers.

Not an expert on early motor drives and features.

Should you also factor in the F100 ? Good auto focus, vertical grip, poor mans F6 and so cheap it is silly money but not as lens versatile. (just read you have had one, whilst typing)


Good luck

 

[sevo]

5. How do you load the film?

On the F4, pull the film tongue exactly to the red mark at the film take-up chamber, close door, curse system for not starting the autowind, readjust so that you are really within the marks and repeat until it starts up. On the F5, it works at the first attempt, even with somewhat mispositioned film...

6. Is MLU easy to use? I would assume so but I don't want to have any "gotcha" moments like I did with my F, haha.

On the F4, like on the F2/F3, one flick of a lever, and back. I suppose it is the same for the F5, but have none at hand.

 

[msbarnes]

You don't say what lenses you are intending using but it sounds as if MF is on the menu.

nope, I didn't. I left it ambigious on purpose. I wanted to ask "which Nikon for me" but then I felt that it was too personal. I want some automation but I'm not sure how much.

Lens-wise, I do plan on "upgrading" some lenses and they are available in MF and AF so I'm not sure how to proceed. I figured that I would find the best body and get the lenses for it. Here are the lenses and focal lengths that I have/want:

20mm: I have the f3.5 UD but I don't find it that good (at wide apertures/cose distances atleast). So i would want the f2.8 version, i can get this in AI-S or AF-D.
35mm: I have none but I would get the Nikkor-O if I get a MF camera or the f2.0 AF-D. This forum prefer the Nikkor-O but Ken Rockwell, the AF-D. I wouldn't care so much because I use this lens when i can't use a 50mm (for space reasons).
50mm: I have the f2.0 HC and it is certainly good enough. I wouldn't mind picking up the f1.8 AF-D because it is supposed to be pretty good and not too expensive.

No strong interest in G lenses or Zeiss. Just those three and maybe* an 85mm. I have a 105mm but it is too long for me. For longer lenses, I'd rather just use a MF slr but for wides I like the 3:2 ratio.

I know this is RF territory but I want the precise framing, close focusing, and etc. I'm shooting with both RF's and SLRs to figure out which I prefer overall...RF's historically have the better lenses and easy focusing but SLR's have the framing and automation.

 

[Kenj8246]

There was a P screen on the auction site a while back that went for $80-something. I wanted it but not THAT bad.

Kenny

 

[msbarnes]

Should you also factor in the F100 ? Good auto focus, vertical grip, poor mans F6 and so cheap it is silly money but not as lens versatile. (just read you have had one, whilst typing)

Good luck

Well I didn't have the F100, my cousin does, and I borrowed it once. Great camera and it dispelled my beliefs that plastic cameras feel like junk. My main reason for pursing an F camera over this is because this lacks MLU. The other reasons is because the F's have better coverage (not that big of a deal, to me) and because the vertical release on the F4/F5.

 

[dabick42]

An enormous number of people have taken an enormous number of excellent portraits with a Nikon F during the last five decades.

You already own this legendary camera - why not do it justice ?

Just saying...

 

[msbarnes]

An enormous number of people have taken an enormous number of excellent portraits with a Nikon F during the last five decades.

You already own this legendary camera - why not do it justice ?

Just saying...

I want at the bare minimum, MLU.

But I think that you might be right and I am getting caught up with all the bells and whistles...I might just get a plain old F2 and stick with non-AI glass.

 

[sevo]

There was a P screen on the auction site a while back that went for $80-something. I wanted it but not THAT bad.

It is not really that excellent - split prisms have their full accuracy when at right angles to some linear feature, so that 45° split merely has you hold the camera at +/-45° angle for focusing where you'd use 0/90° with a horizontal prism. And the two lines aren't quite as useful as a full grid.

I have P screens on my F2 and F4 because they are the only screen type with both a focusing aid and some kind of orientation grid that exist on both. But that was when F4 screens still were available new, at almost the same price for any type, and F screens were cheap. Rethinking that, I'd probably now go for the R screen (grid with split prism) on the F/F2 and a plain grid screen on the F4, as the AF LED (which I mistrusted back then) has proved to be just as good as a focusing aid.

 

[ChrisLivsey]

Given the glass I vote for an F2, and I have F2 and F4 so no bias) but given the prices now can't be a big deal to buy one of each and re-sell what you don't like. The loss should be negligible.

 

[dabick42]

In 2013 you can do photography ''easier'', but I dispute ''better''.

Why the desire for MLU for your portrait use ? It's only beneficial when taking closeups with a bellows and macro lens.

Consider this - you'll feel a lot more pride in knowing that you've taken good portrait shots with a Nikon F and pre AI lens than you will with something more modern and automated.

Why not take some portraits with what you already have and post them on this forum for comment ?

That would be a good path to take...

 

[sevo]

Why the desire for MLU for your portrait use ? It's only beneficial when taking closeups with a bellows and macro lens.

See post #7 - he owns the 20mm UD, one of the few Nikkors that need MLU. But as he expressed dissatisfaction with its performance and seems to consider upgrading to one of the SLR 20mm's, MLU should be rather low on the list of his requirements.

 

[Kenj8246]

It is not really that excellent ...

Perhaps not for you. Different strokes for different folks. 🙂

Kenny

 

[msbarnes]

No no no...
The 20mm f3.5 Nikkor-UD does not need MLU it is the 21mm f4.0 Nikkor-O tht does.

 

[sevo]

No no no...
The 20mm f3.5 Nikkor-UD does not need MLU it is the 21mm f4.0 Nikkor-O tht does.

My error, sorry! Why the need for MLU, then?

 

[Vics]

It took me forever to figure out that "MLU" means mirror lock-up. My F bodies all have it.

"...I want the precise framing, close focusing, and etc. I'm shooting with both RF's and SLRs to figure out which I prefer overall...RF's historically have the better lenses and easy focusing but SLR's have the framing and automation."

For truly precise framing, it's F, F2, F3, and I don't know how far into AF they went before they dumped it.

 

[msbarnes]

In 2013
Why not take some portraits with what you already have and post them on this forum for comment ?

a little off topic but..



Untitled by Michael_Sergio_Barnes, on Flickr


Untitled by Michael_Sergio_Barnes, on Flickr


Untitled by Michael_Sergio_Barnes, on Flickr

A little underexposed but I was playing with 1/15 shutter speeds. the second two are pushed two stops. This was all taken handheld with my Nikon F and 20mm f3.5 UD without a hood.

About the glass:
I don't find the rendering so bad but the lens could be smaller, the viewfinder brighter (faster lens), and since the f2.8 lens sports CRS maybe it is a bit sharper and I gain a stop of light (well almost). The sharpness (or lack of) doesn't bother me too much but the added benefits is tempting.

About the body:
I want to get into the habit of using more support. I will start using a monopod and perhaps getting more consistent results at 1/15 and maybe even 1/8. I don't ever feel comfortable with slow shutter speeds but there is not that much I can do because even if I used a tripod anything lower would be too much of a risk for the model moving. For some shots, I can probably use a tripod for even more assurance...I haven't figured out which works best for me. If I were to get an F4/F5 then portrait orientation would be a little more comfortable (but again, that might not be necessary).

I prefer the look of natural light over strobes so artifical lighting isn't a real alternative for me (plus I think monolights are a bit expensive). I know that a RF makes sense too but I like to focus closely and with some precision with wide lenses