Ermahgerd
Member
Hi,
the film frame counter of my 1955 M3 DS seems to be stuck at frame 40 and doesn't move in any direction when I advance the film. Yes, I have taken out the film spool multiple times and I have also tried to find a solution on the interwebs without success.
I bet there is someone around here who once had the exact same problem and knows how to fix it.
the film frame counter of my 1955 M3 DS seems to be stuck at frame 40 and doesn't move in any direction when I advance the film. Yes, I have taken out the film spool multiple times and I have also tried to find a solution on the interwebs without success.
I bet there is someone around here who once had the exact same problem and knows how to fix it.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
It's the cheapened construction of the M3 compared to the Barnack at fault.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Predictable "Leica sucks" post. And now predictably off-topic.
goamules
Well-known
What?! A camera built only a half century ago has a worn out component?? Something built before Sputnik, when people drove around in 55 Chevy's and listened to tube radios, has the audacity to wear from use? A film counter that has ticked forward 12, 24, or 36 times multiplied by the hundreds of rolls of film put through it dares to quit?? The starter in my 1955 Ford better keep on working forever!
Seriously, I'm sure it will be quick work for a repairman.
Seriously, I'm sure it will be quick work for a repairman.
sc_rufctr
Leica nuts
I wouldn't mess with it. Do you have a local repair man?
Ermahgerd
Member
The local repair guys either don't repair Leicas or they won't lift a finger for such a small problem.
Thats why I'm asking if there is a DIY solution for this. BTW the top plate is already removed for a repaint so reaching the frame counter mechanism is not an issue.
Thats why I'm asking if there is a DIY solution for this. BTW the top plate is already removed for a repaint so reaching the frame counter mechanism is not an issue.
paradoxbox
Well-known
before you send your camera out for repairs try using a different spool in it if you have one, or if not, there is a kind of latch inside the camera that the spool hooks onto and pulls out when you pull out the spool.
see if you can hook onto it with something and pull it downward (gently) to reset the counter.
see if you can hook onto it with something and pull it downward (gently) to reset the counter.
Vickko
Veteran
Top plate is already off?
Okay, then you should be able to see the linkage and mechanism that controls the counter dial, how it activates and how it releases. It is all under the counter dial itself. It is quite the elegant and robust mechanism.
I wonder if the two pawl levers that activate the counter have been popped off, and that is why it doesn't move. I do remember once snagging the holding spring that holds the two pawls, and that will cause the counter to malfunction.
The spool must be installed to engage the counter pawl.
With the cover off, it is a pretty obvious mechanism to figure out.
Okay, then you should be able to see the linkage and mechanism that controls the counter dial, how it activates and how it releases. It is all under the counter dial itself. It is quite the elegant and robust mechanism.
I wonder if the two pawl levers that activate the counter have been popped off, and that is why it doesn't move. I do remember once snagging the holding spring that holds the two pawls, and that will cause the counter to malfunction.
The spool must be installed to engage the counter pawl.
With the cover off, it is a pretty obvious mechanism to figure out.
Ermahgerd
Member
I don't think its supposed to look like this:
Now I only have to find out which screws to remove to get there.
Now I only have to find out which screws to remove to get there.
paradoxbox
Well-known
good stuff! be careful not to strip the screws! might be helpful if you take photos and put them in here too to help any future people who have the same problem.
Vickko
Veteran
The top semi-circular plate, that holds the winder gear and spring, needs to come off. It is held by 3 large screws (large is relative).
There is a fair bit of stuff to re-align when you put it back together, and best to study the mechanism well. Most important is a feeler that aligns to the spool top, which prevents the shutter from being released when the body is not fully cocked.
Yes, you can figure it out yourself, but sometimes faster to have someone explain. And it is not easy to explain with just words.
There is a fair bit of stuff to re-align when you put it back together, and best to study the mechanism well. Most important is a feeler that aligns to the spool top, which prevents the shutter from being released when the body is not fully cocked.
Yes, you can figure it out yourself, but sometimes faster to have someone explain. And it is not easy to explain with just words.
Sparrow
Veteran
... just one of the reasons why the M2 is more "classic" than the M3, perhaps?
paradoxbox
Well-known
that seems ridiculous considering that it appears to have happened infrequently enough in the past 60 years that the OP couldn't find a solution to the problem on the internet. the m3's counter is great! they even put it back on the MP.
goamules
Well-known
A space shuttle blew up! The entire space shuttle program was a farcical waste!
An M3 had a component fail! All M3s are junk compared to M2s!
sc_rufctr
Leica nuts
Well said. I love my M3 and she's never let me down.
Richard G
Veteran
This happened to one of mine - not stuck, just shifted. The M6: I got it fixed. Please forgive my avatar to the left. I didn't adopt it just for this post.
Ermahgerd
Member
The frame counter is working again and I will post some photos of the process later. Right now there is a different problem.
If anyone tries to do the same thing I did, listen to this man.
After fixing the frame counter and putting everything back together the shutter release button won't release the shutter.
Right now it looks like this:
http://i.imgur.com/UDOKpVk.jpg
As you can see, the shutter release button is in the wrong position and can not be pressed down. Pressing the release rod (below the shutter release button) doesn't work either.
I don't know if I missed a step in the re-aligning process (film winding and firing the shutter "internally" works) or if I have lost a part of the shutter release mechanism.
Edit: I am not a smart man. If I had fully screwed in the chrome ring you could see that the shutter release button is in fact in the right position. But the problem of the button not working remains. But I think Vickko solved this problem long before I asked.
Edit 2: Pressing the actual release rod works. Earlier I called the rod that goes into the shutter release button a "release rod".
If anyone tries to do the same thing I did, listen to this man.
After fixing the frame counter and putting everything back together the shutter release button won't release the shutter.
Right now it looks like this:
http://i.imgur.com/UDOKpVk.jpg
As you can see, the shutter release button is in the wrong position and can not be pressed down. Pressing the release rod (below the shutter release button) doesn't work either.
I don't know if I missed a step in the re-aligning process (film winding and firing the shutter "internally" works) or if I have lost a part of the shutter release mechanism.
Edit: I am not a smart man. If I had fully screwed in the chrome ring you could see that the shutter release button is in fact in the right position. But the problem of the button not working remains. But I think Vickko solved this problem long before I asked.
Edit 2: Pressing the actual release rod works. Earlier I called the rod that goes into the shutter release button a "release rod".
Last edited:
Vickko
Veteran
A step got missed in the re-assembly. It isn't the end of the world.
The spring that pushes the button up, is a leaf spring on the bottom of the camera. Is there any upward tension?
The shaft under the button has a flat slotted bar, that pushes on another shaft, but has to sit on the shoulder of that shaft. That shaft goes to the bottom of the camera, and releases the shutter. My first guess is that it isn't pushing on the shoulder of the long shaft.
Also, that bar has a tab that has to clear a notch in the top side of the spool, and, that spool (with the notch) has to be aligned to the stop position when the shutter is cocked. That is the most common error when the winder bearing plate is removed.
Also, you have to compensate for the backlash when film is loaded and tensioning the spool shaft. Meaning, it can work when there is no film or tension, but once you load film the shutter won't release because the notch is just pulled over enough to block the shutter. It's happened to me.
Are you working with a manual?
Figure 7 of this document shows the release train:
http://www.pentax-manuals.com/manuals/service/leica basic repair.pdf
The spring that pushes the button up, is a leaf spring on the bottom of the camera. Is there any upward tension?
The shaft under the button has a flat slotted bar, that pushes on another shaft, but has to sit on the shoulder of that shaft. That shaft goes to the bottom of the camera, and releases the shutter. My first guess is that it isn't pushing on the shoulder of the long shaft.
Also, that bar has a tab that has to clear a notch in the top side of the spool, and, that spool (with the notch) has to be aligned to the stop position when the shutter is cocked. That is the most common error when the winder bearing plate is removed.
Also, you have to compensate for the backlash when film is loaded and tensioning the spool shaft. Meaning, it can work when there is no film or tension, but once you load film the shutter won't release because the notch is just pulled over enough to block the shutter. It's happened to me.
Are you working with a manual?
Figure 7 of this document shows the release train:
http://www.pentax-manuals.com/manuals/service/leica basic repair.pdf
Ermahgerd
Member
I have to thank you a lot. This was exactly the part of your first post that took me too long to understand:
I'm going to reassemble the camera now and then I'll post the photos of the frame counter repair.
I'm going to reassemble the camera now and then I'll post the photos of the frame counter repair.