Thinking of purchasing film M body. Talk me out of it, please.

[raid]

I have it all; SLR; RF; Leica; non-Leica; ... after a while, it becomes unimportant which camera I happen to use.

 

[jsrockit]

I have it all; SLR; RF; Leica; non-Leica; ... after a while, it becomes unimportant which camera I happen to use.

I do not believe you. 🙂

 

[raid]

I focus on which lenses I use.

 

[Erik van Straten]

pmu - I have the same dilemma: Leica M's are an absolute pleasure to use but I prefer the precision of an SLR with 100% viewfinder coverage. I settled on using an M2 for situations where framing is less important and a Nikon F2 where precise framing is important. I would have a hard time choosing just one. If you can swing the M, go for it.

If extremely precise framing is important and you do not mind carrying a bulky camera all day, yes, then a Nikon F or F2 is fine. I like however slightly less precise framing, that makes the pictures a bit more lively. The style of shooting changes when you use a different type of camera. An M Leica or an LTM is definitely more convenient than a full frame SLR.

A half frame camera like the Olympus Pen will never produce the quality of a full frame camera.

 

[iphoenix]

Think me strange, but to me the SLRs don't have the "Soul" that the M series has>

I have, or have had, SLRs by Leica, Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Zeiss and others - still have some of them. I also have a few screw mount Leicas and Canons. Oh almost forgot the Nikon S2.

To me the M4 and M6 are (with the Nikon S2 running 3rd) my most favoured and usable cameras. The M4P would probably be around 6 or 7th, with a couple of Nikon SLRs in between.

 

[pmu]

Think me strange, but to me the SLRs don't have the "Soul" that the M series has>

I have, or have had, SLRs by Leica, Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Zeiss and others - still have some of them. I also have a few screw mount Leicas and Canons. Oh almost forgot the Nikon S2.

To me the M4 and M6 are (with the Nikon S2 running 3rd) my most favoured and usable cameras. The M4P would probably be around 6 or 7th, with a couple of Nikon SLRs in between.

I complety agree with you about the "soul" thing.

I hope Leica would make the EVF M body. But the EVF would have to be really good. That could possibly be the perfect solution for me. Of course, it's not film, but digital is fine too. My GFX50R brings me the most pleasing results ever in any camera I have used, but it's far from a perfect camera. It's big, viewfinder is not the best, lenses are huge, menus are complicated etc.

 

[pmu]

So, if I buy a film M anyway, which one to choose:

1. Good condition M6 with normal signs of wear. Supposedly works as it should, no knowledge if it had CLA done. Around 1650 eur.

2. Just fantastic condition M4-P, CLA done last year by official Leica repairman. 1500e.

 

[Tom R]

So, if I buy a film M anyway, which one to choose:

1. Good condition M6 with normal signs of wear. Supposedly works as it should, no knowledge if it had CLA done. Around 1650 eur.

2. Just fantastic condition M4-P, CLA done last year by official Leica repairman. 1500e.

That's a personal preference. I have used M4-P's for decades without any major problems. I have had each CLA'd once every seven to ten years (depending upon use). Of course, I use a hand-held meter for those few situations (flash guns and external lighting) where it's indicated. I've never missed an on-camera meter, but your workflow/work style might be different. Offhand, I don't know anything about the durability/dependability of the M6 meter, but I'm sure others on this Forum can provide that information.

The only possible drawbacks to the M4-X camera bodies are (1) the cluttered viewfinder, and (2) some people prefer the feel of brass gears on the earlier M bodies. (Doubtless, some people will add resale value to the list of drawbacks; I've never purchased a camera with the intent/desire to sell it.) If (1) is a concern, consider either the M2 or M3 to suit your lens preferences.

 

[d_c]

The feel of the mechanics will be same between the M4-P and M6, as they have the same type of internal gearing - my understanding is that the M4 was the last body with the brass gearing of the M3/M2. So it will really come down to how much you want to have a built-in light meter.

For me it would be the M6 every time.

 

[pmu]

I don't care for the M6 meter. I have owned and used both models. They were basically identical to use, because I did not have batteries in my M6 bodies. I'm just wondering which would be of better value right now. I have those two cameras offered to me.

 

[jsrockit]

I don't care for the M6 meter. I have owned and used both models. They were basically identical to use, because I did not have batteries in my M6 bodies. I'm just wondering which would be of better value right now. I have those two cameras offered to me.

The M-4P is the better user it seems based on your non use of the built in meter. The M6 is a very hot M right now.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I found an perfect example of what annoys me with M rangefinder viewfinder inaccuracy. Attached is a photo taken with my normal shooting distance. Not close up, but pretty close. Can you spot that hook on the wall, right up corner? I am always super careful with the backround and I most definitely framed it out of the photo, but there it is.

SLR's, they don't feel good. My OM-1 takes fine photos, but I don't enjoy using the camera as a tool. M Leicas feel perfect.

Most compact SLRs are better than M3 for two eyes open. They are 1:1 VF view with 50 , while M3 50 is not.

Buying used M now means you have to pay premium for recently serviced (make sure seller provide real date, because for many recent it five years ago).
Or just be ready to spend $$$ and have next to none choice where to send it for CLA.

If you want "a feel" and crooked framing on close ups, I highly recommend Barnacks. They are made, build better than any M and clear SBOOI is superior to any M 50 frames.
And they are not overpriced.

 

[oldwino]

The feel of the mechanics will be same between the M4-P and M6, as they have the same type of internal gearing - my understanding is that the M4 was the last body with the brass gearing of the M3/M2. So it will really come down to how much you want to have a built-in light meter.

For me it would be the M6 every time.

I think the M5 was the last M to be "hand made" and had brass gears, etc. And, it has a very good light meter, when it is working.

 

[Coldkennels]

If you want "a feel" and crooked framing on close ups, I highly recommend Barnacks. They are made, build better than any M and clear SBOOI is superior to any M 50 frames.
And they are not overpriced.

Get a IIIg and you won't even need a SBOOI. That viewfinder is fantastic for 50mm. Is it 1:1? Not even close. Is it bloody accurate? Yep.

 

[hap]

Consider trying out M with a film CL. Not nearly as expensive as a classic but very useable and will hold it's value if you decided to switch or dump.

 

[hap]

....and if the CL meter works it's a nice addition and enables a sort of spot metering. Compact and has shutter speed selector you can actually use with an index finger without taking hand off the camera.....just like an M5.

 

[Andy Kibber]

I'm just wondering which would be of better value right now.

Which of the two is a better deal? Probably the M6. Easier to resell. But if you're not going to use the meter anyway, get the M4-P and leave the M6 for someone who wants or needs the meter!

 

[Archiver]

Depending on what you want, a M body is going to be pretty expensive. Yes, it will last for another few decades with care and service, but it will still have all the limitations that you found before. As much as I love shooting my M9, viewfinder inaccuracy bugs me for critical work, and you seem to want a WYSIWYG framing experience. Not to mention, SLR lenses focus much closer than M lenses, something I've come to really like in my Minolta MD collection. In fact, shooting with Minolta lenses has got me thinking about building a Leica R set, although it would take a while due to how expensive they can be. A Zeiss Classic SLR lens set is going to be much more affordable than a comparable Leica R set, and a Contax SLR set even less. If you like your OM-1, perhaps look at the OM4-Ti and some suitable primes. It will give you the sense of something new, robust and stylish, along with having good lenses.

 

[Rob-F]

The OP's original concern was about framing accuracy. I have been shooting with Leica M for about 60 years or a little more. I can't recall any concerns about framing accuracy on the part of myself or others, prior to the M6 and subsequent models, with their shrunken framelines. You might get a little more on the negative than you saw in the finder of that M4P you are considering; but not all that much. And you have said you don't much care for the m6 meter. I will try to talk you out of the M6, but not the M4P, which I think you will like, unless you require the extreme framing accuracy of, say, the F3. Can you not crop out a tiny bit of excess from the M4P negative when necessary?

 

[Guth]

I used to shoot years with film M bodies, I had maybe 10-15 of them when they were cheap. All gone now, too bad. I used to shoot classic "street photography" and documentary stuff. They were great fro that.

I find myself wanting to shoot 35mm film again. I remember how great they were, but I remember also how I disliked how the framing was not so accurate. Close focusing was also missing.

Nowadays I shoot more artsy stuff, more precise compositions and framing. I would propably love to have M again, but I guess the limitation would start to bug me pretty quickly.

So you had close to 15 M bodies and got rid of them all? That seems pretty telling to me. It honestly appears as if you came here hoping to be encouraged to buy another M body, not to be talked out of it. I don’t have a problem with this — it’s your money after all. I’m simply noting the irony, especially given the other information that you’ve presented. Go with your gut, whatever it might be telling you to do. Good luck.