TLR's 4x4

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I've been toying with the idea of acquiring a 4x4. I realize it uses 127 and that is less available than 120 and the image size smaller. However, the cameras are generally smaller . Other than a Rollei there are other desirable models. Any body have opinions about 4x4 TLR, generally or specifically?
 
Still shooting my Primo Jr 127 TLR - absolutely love it! Sold the Rollei Baby (the Primo is better for me) and the Rolleicord and the Yashica D.... My Primo is Grey - most are black - the Sawyer Mark IV is the same camera. Also like (but have not owned) the Minolta Miniflex. Good threads on 127 TLRs are on this website!

The smaller body is the key for me - but I can still shoot a nice square. The film and processing is more expensive (not set up to process my own film) but the scans are quite nice. I have a stash of old C-41 Kodak (Kodacolor and Gold) as well as more recent ReraPan and ReraChrome.
 
If we could still get a top-quality transparency film in 127 and have the slides mounted as superslides, I would be all over one of these cameras.

(I am already a fan of TLRs and square composition.)

Superslides have the same outside dimensions as standard 135 or 126 slides, with a significantly increased image area, so they should work fine in a standard projector. Also, the square shape of the slides more exactly fits the projection screen, without having to accommodate horizontal and vertical rectangles with the resultant empty screen space. (Slides in 126 were better in this regard, as well.)

- Murray
 
The Primo Jr is really nice and probably the closest to a Rollei in operation. The original Yashica 44 with the crank winder is good too but you have to turn the body to see shutter speed and aperture. That one can shoot 35mm fairly easily but you have to unload it in a changing bag.

Keep in mind the smaller body also means a smaller focusing screen. You can cut down 120 film for 127 but you have to deal with the backing paper too.

For a smaller TLR with easier to deal with film look at the Rollei New Standard. They basically split the difference in size between the Primo Jr and a Rollei 2.8c.

Shawn
 
Weirdly - the Primo Jr felt more like a Rollei (to me) than the Rollieflex Baby! Crank wind, shutter speed/f-stop view from the top, f2.8 lens... hmmm. The auto load (pressure sensor) feature of the Baby is pretty great though!
 
I've only used a winding-knob version of a Yashica 44 with respooled 35mm film in 127 backing paper. The smaller size is convenient compared to a 6x6, and results were good enough for me.
I need to order some Rerapan 100 or 400 for it to get a proper idea of the quality.

I'd like to add a Rollei 4x4 to the collection someday.
 
the Darkroom in San Clemente charges 12$/roll development, standard scan, and online web delivery For 127 surcharge of 5$/roll.. No I do not have a darkroom. I wonder if this 127 could work with the LaB Box using a the 120 adapter?
 
I use the Darkroom for 127 film - they do a great job - the standard 127 scan ends up being a larger file than a 120 scan - think super slide = super scan - like a jumbo 35mm scan! Make sure to ask for the return of your 127 spools. The plastic spools are not good - always use the metal spools - at least for the part you can control= the take-up spool.
 
Lab Box , in their FAQ, states that working on modules for 127 and 110. I've asked them to update us on that capability.. Nik N Trik is a really neat site to find film. Hand spooled as well as commercial stock for 127
 
I’ve been using this device for a number of months now for my Ermanox 127 roll film back: https://www.camerhack.it/product/fck127-mk-3/

There’s definitely a learning curve involved and I figured out a few little ‘tricks’ to make the process go a bit more smoothly. In the the long run I think it’s a worthwhile endeavour - you can use whatever 120 film you want and save a few dollars a roll (when compared to Rerapan, which I personally haven’t found to be the greatest film).
 
I’ve been using this device for a number of months now for my Ermanox 127 roll film back: https://www.camerhack.it/product/fck127-mk-3/

There’s definitely a learning curve involved and I figured out a few little ‘tricks’ to make the process go a bit more smoothly. In the the long run I think it’s a worthwhile endeavour - you can use whatever 120 film you want and save a few dollars a roll (when compared to Rerapan, which I personally haven’t found to be the greatest film).

Hi Vince
Maybe some day you will share your experiences with this device (ie tricks) and elaborate. In the meantime...one need spools...metals ones. Where do those come from? Maybe from Nik N Tick? Shanghai GP3 127?
 
Hi Vince
Maybe some day you will share your experiences with this device (ie tricks) and elaborate. In the meantime...one need spools...metals ones. Where do those come from? Maybe from Nik N Tick? Shanghai GP3 127?

As far as metal spools go, eBay is your friend. You can usually find them for $5 each. I just bought 9 of them for $44. Even when I use Rerapan (which comes on plastic spools), I roll onto metal spools in the camera.

‘Tricks’ for using that Camerhack cutter: First, I’d tape the leader of the paper to the 120 take up spool. Why? The reason is that when you are re-rolling the cut film from that spool onto a 127 spool, when you get to the end it will maintain the tension on the film and keep the roll tight. If you didn’t tape it, the film would lose all its tension when it leaves the 120 spool and that is a heap of trouble. So what I do is when it gets to the end and you feel the ‘pull’ from the tape, I hold onto the winding knob, then lift the top off the compartment, and then hold the tension on the 127 spool with one hand while removing the tape from the 120 spool with the other. It also reduces the possibility of the tape that secures the film to the backing paper from binding and creating a bulge in the roll.

Second thing I do - just as a precaution - is to roll the film in a changing tent (I don’t have a darkroom, so I use a Photoflex Changing Room), both when rolling the film onto the 120 take up spool (as it’s cutting the film), as well as when I’m rolling the cut film onto the 127 spool. I know that you’re ‘supposed’ to be able to use this device in daylight, but I don’t like to take chances, so I do it to reduce the possibility of light leaks.

Third thing I do is to cut the end of the paper at #16 and then cut a tongue there. Then I unroll back to frame 10 (using the 6x6 numbers) and cut the film there and tape it. Why? The main reason is because the 127 flanges are smaller than the 120 spool flanges, and the length of 127 film is less than 120. So to make sure my rolls aren’t too ‘fat’, I cut back both the paper length and the film length. Maybe I’m stating the obvious here, but just in case!

So really that’s about it. I have pretty good luck with Ilford Pan F - I haven’t tried any other film so far, as I need to use slow film with the Ermanox.

I should point out that since I’m using these Rollex-Patent 127 backs for my Ermanox, I’m getting 8 exposures per roll (it’s 4.5 x 6cm in horizontal orientation), which is what I’d get in a regular roll of 127. I’m not sure how many you’d get from 4x4 or how the numbers on the paper will line up, so you may have to sacrifice a roll of 120 to see how that would all work reliably for you.

Please bear in mind that I am certainly no expert when it comes to cutting 120 film down to 127 format. Generally I find it to be a pain (takes me about 20 minutes per roll from start to finish), but as I say in the long run it’s more economical than Rerapan and it allows you to use much better film than Rerapan.
 
;m not sure how many you’d get from 4x4 or how the numbers on the paper will line up, so you may have to sacrifice a roll of 120 to see how that would all work reliably for you.

With the Primo Jr or the lever wind Yashica 44 (and maybe others) you really only need a starting mark for the first frame. Once that is done advance is automatic.

Shawn
 
With the Primo Jr or the lever wind Yashica 44 (and maybe others) you really only need a starting mark for the first frame. Once that is done advance is automatic.

Shawn

Shawn
So wouldn't you use the window on the back of the camera and wind the film until #1 shows up...close the window and fire away? Or do you have to cock the shutter at that time and doesn't that automatically advance the film to #2?
 
Shawn
So wouldn't you use the window on the back of the camera and wind the film until #1 shows up...close the window and fire away? Or do you have to cock the shutter at that time and doesn't that automatically advance the film to #2?

This is what I was alluding when I said the Rolleiflex Baby is better when it comes to loading. The Primo Jr DOES need a reverse half-ish wind of the crank after advancing to #1 -then you close the little window, then you slide(and push) the counter rest to #1...whew! The Rollei has a mechanical button/sensor that "feels" the thickness of the backing paper and automatically ready at #1- pretty cool - usually works well (until it doesn't).
 
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