Pixii Monochrome / Color

[boojum]

The reviewer seems very taken with this camera, but we've heard things like :
"More important to financial good sense, the upgradeability of this camera makes it future proof. Put differently, this could be the last body you buy. Every few years, you might want to change the sensor and processor, for example. I’ve been pestering poor David for a CCD ever since this evolution path has been on the table �� Apparently, though, there are no more CCD sensors available reliably today. But there are plenty of other interesting propositions and it’s fair to say the current sensor brings much of the CCD goodness of yore with it."

The Leica M8 was introduced with the notion of perpetually upgrading the sensor and electronics. "Would be nice, Not going to happen".

"'While other digital cameras quickly become outdated and are replaced by newer models, our new concept extends the value retention that stands for the Leica brand," said Steven K. Lee, CEO of Leica Camera AG. He promises that the upgrade program will be ongoing, and new developments are in the works, possibly including upgrades to the imaging sensor. Digital cameras that are two or three years old are now considered out of date, so many consumers would rather trash an old camera than refurbish it. Leica’s new perpetual upgrade program is designed to put fresh technology in the original 10.5-megapixel M8 camera body; this is a nice spin on recycling."

A 10.5MPixel CCD based camera. Mine is still going strong, but Leica never did come through with updating the sensor.

Listening to Leica's promises is like listening to Putin's promises. Always hollow. And that is so disappointing, unless, of course, you are a masochist and then you will be a happy, happy camper. Dealing with Leica is like being in a dysfunctional relationship. No, it is being in a dysfunctional relationship.

I complain about this a lot because it makes me unhappy. It will never change at Leica if enough people do not complain, or shop elsewhere. Pixii??

 

[boojum]

Now that almost six months have passed since the last entry by Brian we see a more complete picture of the camera supplied by the manufacturer. With WiFi off it is not a battery eater. The software has been revised to speed up shots and we see, also, that it can do monochrome and color from the same sensor. I do not know the physics here but I understand from what I have read this is clever. The Mattias Burling preview review shows some nice B&W and color images, monochrome B&W, so this little Pixii is evolving into a nice piece of gear.

I am looking forward to receiving mine. As I have written, perhaps elsewhere, I hope to do an M8.2/Pixii side by side test of the same lenses. They would be the Canon 28mm LTM f/2.8 and the CV 35mm f/1.4 Nokton II. Maybe try the Jupiter 8 and Canon 50mm LTM f/1.8 later. APS-H and APS-C are close enough to reduce viewer distraction from slightly different image content.

I did catch what I hope is an error in the manual where the bold print says two year warranty and then the sentence following says one year warranty. As Pixii is touting two year warranty I am thinking this is an honest oversight, a proofing error. I wrote them and hope for clarification.

"Pixii Two-Year Limited Warranty Summary
Pixii warrants the included hardware product
and accessories against defects in materials and
workmanship for one year from the date of original
retail purchase."

 

[olakiril]

Actually the answer can be found here https://www.35mmc.com/08/06/2020/pix...1112-a-primer/

I quote:
"Pixii can be shot in either colour or black & white.

If you set Pixii to B&W and DNG, thats what you get, monochrome DNGs that cant be switched back to colour later."

So Pixii doesn't provide a real monochrome DNG file but a DNG file with a monochrome embedded color profile, somehow a reminder that the picture was shot to be b&w.

This is sth that many people are still unaware of, even some recent YT reviews, and unfortunately fall for the marketing language by Pixii:

• Monochrome mode produces true, 16-bit single-plane, monochrome DNG files from a
  
  color sensor, no need for another B&W camera.

The bayer filter array filters the light and reduces the luminance information that the sensor can capture.

There are different demosaicing algorithms that can be better at minimizing errors when interpolating colors or spatial information such as edges. See here for an example https://www.ece.lsu.edu/ipl/papers/IEEE_SPM2005.pdf.

In the best case scenario Pixii are using a different demosaicing algorithm (which anyone can use for a RAW file from any camera by the way) and in the worse case they are just using a B&W icc profile.

In any case, this might provide marginal improvements in B&W quality but will remove the benefit of being able to use the color information to create a better image (mimicking color filters for example).

The only true B&W camera is a camera with a sensor that has no color filters and will produce far far superior results to the implementation from Pixii.

 

[boojum]

The Pixii uses a 1000mah battery. The M8 uses an 1860mah battery, and you can easily replace it.

Double the pixels on the sensor, increase the processing, increase the storage- you need a bigger battery. It will not fit into the stylish camera body. If you buy this camera- buy it based on current specifications. Don't fall for the wishful thinking of someone that does not know the technology.

(Edited- the camera uses a 1000mah removable battery. One of the product description pages described it as an internal battery)

Late comment, but, . . . As we now know battery life is quite good with WiFi turned off. Battery life is excellent, near infinite, when one considers it is a common Sony format, readily available. And there are cheap clones. No more worrying will the M8/M9 battery sources in China dry up. What a relief.

The Pixii seems to remove most of my Leica anxiety, getting it fixed when it fails. Leica ducked on the M8 and M9, are dreadfully slow on repairs at any of their facilities and heinously expensive. For me, and maybe not for others, dealing with Leica, the company, seems like an S&M session. Not interested.

Pixii it is a 100 Euro round trip to the factory plus repairs. I bet you dollars to donuts these guys at Pixii will have wonderful turnaround times. Add to that what can be upgraded electronically in a camera and is almost zero mechanical. Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

So far the camera looks great. I just hope after all my enthusiasm I don't get bitten in the ass. LOL It is highly unlikely as the reviews are getting better and better. Oh. frabjous joy.

 

[boojum]

Now that almost six months have passed since the last entry by Brian we see a more complete picture of the camera supplied by the manufacturer. With WiFi off it is not a battery eater. The software has been revised to speed up shots and we see, also, that it can do monochrome and color from the same sensor. I do not know the physics here but I understand from what I have read this is clever. The Mattias Burling preview review shows some nice B&W and color images, monochrome B&W, so this little Pixii is evolving into a nice piece of gear.

I am looking forward to receiving mine. As I have written, perhaps elsewhere, I hope to do an M8.2/Pixii side by side test of the same lenses. They would be the Canon 28mm LTM f/2.8 and the CV 35mm f/1.4 Nokton II. Maybe try the Jupiter 8 and Canon 50mm LTM f/1.8 later. APS-H and APS-C are close enough to reduce viewer distraction from slightly different image content.

I did catch what I hope is an error in the manual where the bold print says two year warranty and then the sentence following says one year warranty. As Pixii is touting two year warranty I am thinking this is an honest oversight, a proofing error. I wrote them and hope for clarification.

"Pixii Two-Year Limited Warranty Summary
Pixii warrants the included hardware product
and accessories against defects in materials and
workmanship for one year from the date of original
retail purchase."

David Barth answered to say the warranty is two years. I hope they update their literature to reflect that. Most importantly that the warranty card with the camera states that.

Repairs? Pixii Tesla'ed that. As I wrote above, it is a 100 Euro round trip to France. Or maybe they pay the ride back on warranty repairs. I do not know. Anyway, they get it, open it, attach probes, shoot the bug, replace the offending part/board and button it up. Diagnosing will be done by HAL but he will have better manners now. I am so sorry that the drudges in Wetzlar could not do this or even see it coming. There is a chance the drudges will be even sorrier than I. Schade/tant pis.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I'm glad the Pixii is out, and that the upgrade make it a very serious camera. I could deal with a camera without a screen, just like my original DCS200ir. That camera also needed to be connected to the computer to download images- using SCSI. I would like to see a full-frame camera from them one day. I would also like to see them use 14-bit pixels and a dedicated monochrome sensor.

On Leica repair- I sent my M9 in for sensor replacement long after the free period was over. It was around 7 years old. They replaced the main board with the sensor, did a CLA, and added a one-year warranty for under $1000. It was back in two weeks.
There are companies that rebuild battery packs- I need to try one out.

 

[boojum]

I'm glad the Pixii is out, and that the upgrade make it a very serious camera. I could deal with a camera without a screen, just like my original DCS200ir. That camera also needed to be connected to the computer to download images- using SCSI. I would like to see a full-frame camera from them one day. I would also like to see them use 14-bit pixels and a dedicated monochrome sensor.

On Leica repair- I sent my M9 in for sensor replacement long after the free period was over. It was around 7 years old. They replaced the main board with the sensor, did a CLA, and added a one-year warranty for under $1000. It was back in two weeks.
There are companies that rebuild battery packs- I need to try one out.

You had great luck with the M9 repairs. I wish you had sent it under a name not your own. Overgaard gets great results, too. But there are so many howls from the hoi polloi like myself who do not get good service. I had to write NJ three times just to get an answer to a simple question. That kind of service is what we got our cow every spring.

Yes, batteries can be rebuilt. No need, though, with those Sony NP-FW50's. Abundant. Leica seems to be like Apple in an addiction to proprietary items. Yes, the Sony battery is proprietary, too, but it is in use all over. Other than the M9 who else uses the M8/M8.2 battery?

I am beginning to think that Leica approaches the camera business just as do its customers: a hobby.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I've had custom battery packs designed for equipment built to my specifications. I needed the hardware to be small as possible, yet operate for a while. Even to the point of the orientation of pushing in a CF card: turned it upside down to reduce height of the hand-held device. Latest generation of hardware- not as compact, using an off-the-shelf battery. BUT- I've seen it both ways.

 

[boojum]

I've had custom battery packs designed for equipment built to my specifications. I needed the hardware to be small as possible, yet operate for a while. Even to the point of the orientation of pushing in a CF card: turned it upside down to reduce height of the hand-held device. Latest generation of hardware- not as compact, using an off-the-shelf battery. BUT- I've seen it both ways.

Yes, you have dabbled in a lot of electronic games. Throw in optics and FORTRAN and you must be wearing a conical hat covered with stars and crescent moons. In cameras I like to keep it as simple as possible. Easier for me to grasp.

I am so fond of that '57 J8. I will be taking the '51 up to PDX in a week for Advance Camera to CLA. I think the '57 is my current preferred lens. The CV 35 is a bit glaring for my tastes so I will be shopping for an old 35mm for the Pixii. I bet there is a Canon out there as nice as the 28mm LTM f/2.8. I'll try the CV 35 and 40 but I currently like the J8 type colors much more. For skin tones the J8 is on the money. If you know a good 35 let me know. The CV just pops too much.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

The 35/2.8 Summaron- lower contrast, sharp. The Nikkor 3.5cm F2.5 is the same formula, but higher contrast. These days- much cheaper.
I kept the Nikkor over the Summaron, but look at both.

The J-12 fits on my M8 and M9, but not sure if it will go on the Pixii.

 

[boojum]

The 35/2.8 Summaron- lower contrast, sharp. The Nikkor 3.5cm F2.5 is the same formula, but higher contrast. These days- much cheaper.
I kept the Nikkor over the Summaron, but look at both.

The J-12 fits on my M8 and M9, but not sure if it will go on the Pixii.

The J 12 is reputed to fit, no shutter in front of the sensor. ;o) Speak to me about the Canon 35mm LTM F/2.0. It has been reviewed well. But what the hell, so was Dillinger. Only a few will get that.

 

[boojum]

The 35/2.8 Summaron- lower contrast, sharp. The Nikkor 3.5cm F2.5 is the same formula, but higher contrast. These days- much cheaper.
I kept the Nikkor over the Summaron, but look at both.

The J-12 fits on my M8 and M9, but not sure if it will go on the Pixii.

Bought a '51 J12. Same guy who sold me the sweet '57 J8. Let's see if he can do this twice. The CV 35 is just too bright on the M9 SOOC. The Summaron is ~US$1500. I can be happy at 1/7 of that price with the J12. With postage, US$200.

 

[ranger9]

Speak to me about the Canon 35mm LTM F/2.0.

You can see some example photos I made with the Canon 35mm f/2 LTM on a Pixii here:

https://adobe.ly/3x7blFx

These are just routine documentary photos around my workplace, the kind of thing I shoot for emails and social media posts as part of my job in marketing.

Most were shot at f/2.8; a few at f/2. Also mixed in are three or four photos made with the 7Artisans 35mm f/2; these are identified in the comments, but I'll bet you can spot them because of their lower contrast.

Subjective remarks about the Canon: It is ludicrously tiny, roughly the size of two Double-Stuff Oreos (I actually lost it once in the dark recesses of a camera bag.) It is beautifully finished and very smooth in operation. I have no complaints about acutance and contrast in normal lighting. It does seem to get soft around the edges in strong backlight, which is why I'm thinking I should investigate the new CV Ultron 35/2.

 

[boojum]

You can see some example photos I made with the Canon 35mm f/2 LTM on a Pixii here:

https://adobe.ly/3x7blFx

These are just routine documentary photos around my workplace, the kind of thing I shoot for emails and social media posts as part of my job in marketing.

Most were shot at f/2.8; a few at f/2. Also mixed in are three or four photos made with the 7Artisans 35mm f/2; these are identified in the comments, but I'll bet you can spot them because of their lower contrast.

Subjective remarks about the Canon: It is ludicrously tiny, roughly the size of two Double-Stuff Oreos (I actually lost it once in the dark recesses of a camera bag.) It is beautifully finished and very smooth in operation. I have no complaints about acutance and contrast in normal lighting. It does seem to get soft around the edges in strong backlight, which is why I'm thinking I should investigate the new CV Ultron 35/2.

Dude, you are hurting me. I have found the CV 35mm f/1.4 N II too bright for my taste, on an M9. Burling shot some with the CV 40 f/1.2 on the Pixii and all his looked nice but I do not know what SOOC was. The SOOC color is my yardstick. I really like the Canon but I think I have a weakness for Canons. I just bought a Jupiter 12 for its color, deep and solid like my Jupiter 8. Now I may have to go back to eBay and find the Canon. BTW, the 28mm LTM f/2.8 Canon I have is also miniscule. Great lens though. https://flickr.com/photos/sandynoyes/51034197358/in/album-72177720295390844/lightbox/

Then that is it. No more LTM's

Drat. LOL

Thanks for the help.

 

[boojum]

You can see some example photos I made with the Canon 35mm f/2 LTM on a Pixii here:

https://adobe.ly/3x7blFx

These are just routine documentary photos around my workplace, the kind of thing I shoot for emails and social media posts as part of my job in marketing.

Most were shot at f/2.8; a few at f/2. Also mixed in are three or four photos made with the 7Artisans 35mm f/2; these are identified in the comments, but I'll bet you can spot them because of their lower contrast.

Subjective remarks about the Canon: It is ludicrously tiny, roughly the size of two Double-Stuff Oreos (I actually lost it once in the dark recesses of a camera bag.) It is beautifully finished and very smooth in operation. I have no complaints about acutance and contrast in normal lighting. It does seem to get soft around the edges in strong backlight, which is why I'm thinking I should investigate the new CV Ultron 35/2.

Yeah, you cost me. Bought a very nice one in Japan on eBay. I really like the color in your pictures. Thank you for the help.

 

[ranger9]

Sorry to have been an enabler. (Hahaha, actually not sorry!) Hope you like yours. Just make sure you don't lose it in the bottom of a bag or something! But you said you had the Canon 28 so you're used to their ultra compact design style from that era. Will look forward to seeing your shots.

 

[M.B]

This is sth that many people are still unaware of, even some recent YT reviews, and unfortunately fall for the marketing language by Pixii:
.

Hello,
Since I made the most recent YouTube review I thought I would give a comment.

I haven’t read any marketing material so I can’t give feedback on that. I did however get to read a document with the technical explanation of how it works. And it’s not a baked in picture profile that is “remembered” or simply prevents you from switching back to color. There is a little more to it than that.

In my own simple testing side by side I basically end up with a brighter image in B&W using the exact same exposure. When I then push the converted color image to match it introduces more noise.

Not a huge difference, but still. IMO the monochrome mode is more about committing to the B&W for a different creative approach. Like with the M9M I used to have. But one can quickly toggle between them with a double click on the menu button so it’s not as much of a commitment like for example loading a roll of Acros.

So no, not a dedicated monochrome sensor, nor just a picture profile.

/M.B

 

[boojum]

Hello,
Since I made the most recent YouTube review I thought I would give a comment.

I haven’t read any marketing material so I can’t give feedback on that. I did however get to read a document with the technical explanation of how it works. And it’s not a baked in picture profile that is “remembered” or simply prevents you from switching back to color. There is a little more to it than that.

In my own simple testing side by side I basically end up with a brighter image in B&W using the exact same exposure. When I then push the converted color image to match it introduces more noise.

Not a huge difference, but still. IMO the monochrome mode is more about committing to the B&W for a different creative approach. Like with the M9M I used to have. But one can quickly toggle between them with a double click on the menu button so it’s not as much of a commitment like for example loading a roll of Acros.

So no, not a dedicated monochrome sensor, nor just a picture profile.

/M.B

O, Lord, thank you for some hands-on knowledgeable comment.

 

[boojum]

Out trotting around this afternoon with Pixii and the Cooke 2" Amotal. This is of some fading Rhodies, OOC just exported from DNG in Darktable to JPG. Resized after the fact in GIMP.

​

 

[boojum]

Truck. I have to try a different color profile in the Pixii. This was "Standard 0." We do get sunshine. We are just saving it up for July, yup. Shot with the 35mm Canon LTM f/2.0 "Black." Enlarging the image on my desktop shows good detail not seen here.

​