CLAdictic
Established
I just picked up a M2-KS-15. Serial number 1164 XXX. It was sold as a repaint black paint. The serial number tells me it was near the end of the 504 cameras in produced in 1966. The viewfinder has been modified to provide frame lines like the M4-P. I'm curious about the Leica box it was sent in. It's white plastic with a faux red plush liner. Leica appears in red on the top cover. Other than that there is no information. Can you help me out with any information? Thanks
Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
The white box is for an M6 classic. I had the first of two KS15-4 cameras I owned modified with M4-P framelines (ala DAG), but I wouldn't do that again. Although very practical, it was in literally perfect condition (I had Leica USA replace the topcover with the last M2 top they had) so it was a collectable. I sold it for top dollar at the time, but it would be worth much more today - even with the modified framelines.
Since new M2 topcovers can't be had today, I think the black paint is fine as long as it's a quality job.
The second of two KS15-4 cameras I've owned over the years. This one was in almost perfect condition and all original.
CLAdictic
Established
Thanks for the information. The black paint was professionally done, that's all I know on that, likewise the frame lines in the viewfinder. The fast loading was factory done I'm guessing, if I understand about the Army canceling an order, then the factory modifying the load system? I like the lens on your M2, my serial number is 227 higher than yours.
Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
According the recorded numbers (at least based on the information I have), the last KS15-4 was #1164300. That means your camera was built outside the recorded serial range of the KS15-4 camera; that doesn't mean your camera isn't genuine, but it does mean it wasn't recorded as a KS15-4.
The KS15-4 was not a "cancelled" contract; in fact, AFAIK, every M2 KS15-4 produced was used at some point in Vietnam. It is very rare to find one of these in "collectible" condition. The one pictured above was in almost perfect condition because the topcover cleaned up nicely, it had no dents or scratches, and the backplate and baseplate, which were well used, were easily replaced - I simply lucked out. Sure wish I had either one back! I sold both at different times (among the stupidest things I've done over the years) due to their value - and at the time I simply preferred using a metered M camera.
Some say the M2-R (2000 units sequentially produced), produced much later in 1969 - well into M4 production - was a cancelled military contract. I believe this is simply not true. Leica was looking to revive the M2 as a lower cost alternative to the then popular M4, but production costs and sales didn't bear that out. Ultimately, in order to blow them out, the M2-R was "kitted" with a DR Summicron.
The KS15-4 was the very first camera to have the "M4" quick loading system manufactured and installed at the Leica factory. Produced in 1966, 875 units were recorded in two groups; Sr. # 1163151-1163770 (620) and 1164046-1164300 (255).
M2-6 (FrankenLeica) - another story altogether. ...
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
I wasn't familiar with the KS15-4. I knew about the KE-7A, which was an M4 special version (wasn't it bought by the US Air Force?). The KS15-4 is new learning for me. I found it in Rogliatti, on page 86. He says it was bought by the U.S. Army. I wonder if it would be more valued today with the replacement M2 top cover, as Bill Blackwell shows, or with the original military top cover with the original military model designation?
Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
Unlike the KE-7A, the KS15-4 had no printed "designation" anywhere on the camera. It looked just like any other M2 with a self-timer. The recorded serial range (along with its quick load system) is the only way of identifying a KS15-4.
On the first KS15-4 I owned, I purchased (the last) M2 topcover from Leica USA and they re-engraved the original serial number. In keeping with Leica's policy and practice, they destroyed the original topcover. In fact, the person who did the special engraving (primarily serial numbers) at Leica USA has retired. Last I knew Leica USA is now sending these services on to Germany.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
Thanks for explaining that, Bill. So since the camera was the same as any other late M2, apparently KS15-4 was more of a catalog number, or a military contract number, than a model number.
Nitroplait
Well-known
The quick load system was a significant difference from other late M2s
My 1958 button-rewind M2 has the Quick Load too. But I put it in myself, as it came as a kit from the dealer.
Nitroplait
Well-known
Yeah, OKMy 1958 button-rewind M2 has the Quick Load too. But I put it in myself, as it came as a kit from the dealer.
. The M4 style QL and the user installable QL kit are two different things as I am sure you are aware.