das
Well-known
I am sure that someone has these answers at his/her fingertips, but I do not own any LTM lenses that can focus more closely than 0.9m. Two quick questions:
1. Those who have 2000s VC M39 lenses or certain Leica M39 lenses: Can the Canon V / VI / P cameras couple all the way down to 0.7m? If not, do you know how close? I know that the VI can go at least to 0.9m.
2. Those who have LTM 50mm f/1.4 or f/2 Nikkors, do those rangefinder couple at any distance below 1.00m with the V / VI / P?
Thanks!
1. Those who have 2000s VC M39 lenses or certain Leica M39 lenses: Can the Canon V / VI / P cameras couple all the way down to 0.7m? If not, do you know how close? I know that the VI can go at least to 0.9m.
2. Those who have LTM 50mm f/1.4 or f/2 Nikkors, do those rangefinder couple at any distance below 1.00m with the V / VI / P?
Thanks!
shawn
Veteran
Tested the f2 Nikkor and Rollei 40mm f2.8 on the Canon P. Attached pictures are where the rangefinder stopped moving. No idea if it is accurate at this distance though.
The difference between the two is on the Nikkor the thread mount gets in the way, on the Rollei it has a cutout in that area to give more room for the RF cam.
Shawn
The difference between the two is on the Nikkor the thread mount gets in the way, on the Rollei it has a cutout in that area to give more room for the RF cam.
Shawn
das
Well-known
Thanks Shawn! Really appreciate you taking the time to look at it. I would guess that if it couples, then it continues to be more or less accurate, but who knows? So, it looks like maybe around 0.75m on a modern M39 lens and maybe about 0.8m on the Nikkor? That is pretty interesting as one would wonder why the Canon bodies would have this capability when it did not produce, at the time, any lenses that could focus more closely than around 1.00m.
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
I'd assume it's less of an intentional design, and more about allowing for a certain "fudge factor" - if you have an intended hard limit at 1m, you might end up with an actual limit at 1.1m or something daft if the rangefinder is drastically adjusted and/or rebuilt later. Letting the rangefinder cam follower go further out than your lenses are designed to move gives you some breathing room in that respect.
Every LTM camera I have to hand (Leicas, Canons, Leotaxes, Zorkis, FEDs) focus to at least 0.8m-ish on the VC 28/3.5, so I suspect this is fairly common across all LTM cameras.
Also, for what it's worth, all the Zorkis I have to hand actually go all the way down to the 0.7m hard limit of the VC 28/3.5. I wish I had one of the close-focusing Nikkors to see where they actually drop off - I doubt it'd be too much closer than that.
Every LTM camera I have to hand (Leicas, Canons, Leotaxes, Zorkis, FEDs) focus to at least 0.8m-ish on the VC 28/3.5, so I suspect this is fairly common across all LTM cameras.
Also, for what it's worth, all the Zorkis I have to hand actually go all the way down to the 0.7m hard limit of the VC 28/3.5. I wish I had one of the close-focusing Nikkors to see where they actually drop off - I doubt it'd be too much closer than that.
shawn
Veteran
I doubt it would go that far. The RF cam is just about flush with the thread mount at the start of the close focus on the Nikkors. You would very likely have to trim the threads away to get it to couple closer. That is why the Rollei focuses closer.
Shawn
bluesun267
Well-known
Shawn's experience squares with my experience with the VI-L, P and VL (roughly .8m). The Canon 7 will go closer, even below .7m IIRC. All of the aforementioned cameras can be made to go closer (as can the Leica IIIf & IIIg, Leotax and maybe others) by grinding out a recess (for the focusing cam) in the back of the lens mounting ring. That combined with a small recess added to the Nikkor 50mm LTM rear mount can get you down to between 2-2.25ft. You can see this recess natively on the very few CV LTM lenses that focus down to .7m (such as the Color Skopar 28, 35 & 50). Also the Ricoh GR 28/2.8 Special Edition and the later version Avenon 28mm lenses have this.
None of these cameras will be very accurate below 1m. But I find it nice to have it available rather than not. The thing I notice with the design of the rangefinder patch on LTM cameras is that your perception of the correct focus point depends heavily on the position of your eye when looking at it. Both left-right and up-down. It gets worse the closer the distance. The Canon 7 did nothing to resolve this despite the longer base length. The M3 was revolutionary for many reasons but I think one of the biggest achievements is solving the issue of eye position influencing focus point at all distances.
None of these cameras will be very accurate below 1m. But I find it nice to have it available rather than not. The thing I notice with the design of the rangefinder patch on LTM cameras is that your perception of the correct focus point depends heavily on the position of your eye when looking at it. Both left-right and up-down. It gets worse the closer the distance. The Canon 7 did nothing to resolve this despite the longer base length. The M3 was revolutionary for many reasons but I think one of the biggest achievements is solving the issue of eye position influencing focus point at all distances.