How long until a Chinese company makes a digital rangefinder?

[jsrockit]

As we know, Chinese companies like TTArtisan and 7Artisans make M mount lenses that are very cheap but with ok performance. If you want. A brand new digital rangefinder you have Pixii and Leica at $3000 and $8500 respectively. Could China be in the middle of designing a digital rangefinder with a price tag lower than the Pixii?

 

[agentlossing]

They should. If course, I used the Yi M1 M4/3 camera and it was pretty darn clunky, so the jury is out on whether it would be enjoyable to use.

 

[ranger9]

I would guess the answer to that question is "Never." What China is good at is manufacturing anything that can be simplified, automated, and scaled up. An optical rangefinder is exactly the opposite of that: it's complicated, has to be adjusted at least partly by hand, and isn't in high-volume demand.

On the other hand, they might come up with a different approach. Suppose somebody came up with a "range/viewfinder" in which the viewfinder consisted of a phone-size camera, and the rangefinder consisted of a second camera, offset from the first to provide the moving image, plus electronics to combine both images in an EVF. A digital micrometer would read the coupling cam on the back of an M lens, providing the input for adjusting the moving image. There would be no moving parts at all except for the micrometer. All the initial setup could be done on an automated rig, and any subsequent alignments could be done by the user without tools. The EVF also could be used for viewing the sensor image conventionally, or for reviewing images taken. In other words, a conventional mirrorless camera with EVF, plus an add-on range/viewfinder module and micrometer.

The looming question would be how many people would pay extra for the added parts compared to the cost of the base EVF mirrorless camera. Not many, I'd guess. Except for the Yi M1, China doesn't seem to have jumped into the camera-making business in a big way except as a manufacturing site for existing companies, so I suspect they don't see this as a business with a lot of upside.

 

[dexdog]

I question whether any company, Chinese or otherwise, would make a new digital RF camera. I don't think that the market is there.

 

[nickthetasmaniac]

Hmmm not sure if it would work. Even a ‘cheap’ digital rangefinder is still going to be pretty expensive, and I’m not sure how much of a market there is for a cheap expensive manual rangefinder (if that makes sense).

The lenses are a bit different because they are actually cheap…

 

[dexdog]

Given that adapters exist to allow use of existing RF and SLR lenses to excellent quality mirrorless cameras from Nikon, Sony, Canon, Panasonic and other makers, I do not see the benefit of a new RF camera. Leica makes excellent RF digital cameras and has a certain cachet, but it is a luxury brand. Last time I travelled internationally in 2019, i.e., pre COVID plague, I was one of the 5 % of wierdos using anything but a phone to take photos.

 

[aizan]

I'm thinking sure, it's possible. Maybe Mr. Zhou?

 

[Michael Markey]

I imagine that the camera market in general is fast diminishing given the ubiquitous use of the phone and its connectivity. Even those folk who still use a camera see little point in manual focusing one given the excellent manual focus systems built into the latest models .Not sure that a new RF would be viable . Frankly I`m surprised that Leica are still making them . I still use my film Leicas but for digital I use their other models .

 

[jsrockit]

I question whether any company, Chinese or otherwise, would make a new digital RF camera. I don't think that the market is there.

Pixii just did it within the last few years.

 

[jsrockit]

Hmmm not sure if it would work. Even a ‘cheap’ digital rangefinder is still going to be pretty expensive, and I’m not sure how much of a market there is for a cheap expensive manual rangefinder (if that makes sense).

The lenses are a bit different because they are actually cheap…

It does not need to be cheap, just cheap compared to what we have now in the market. The cheapest, new, is the Pixii at $3000.

 

[jsrockit]

I would guess the answer to that question is "Never." What China is good at is manufacturing anything that can be simplified, automated, and scaled up. An optical rangefinder is exactly the opposite of that: it's complicated, has to be adjusted at least partly by hand, and isn't in high-volume demand.

Good counterpoints. Though I am not sure high volume demand and rangefinder lenses are synonymous either.

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

As we know, Chinese companies like TTArtisan and 7Artisans make M mount lenses that are very cheap but with ok performance. If you want. A brand new digital rangefinder you have Pixii and Leica at $3000 and $8500 respectively. Could China be in the middle of designing a digital rangefinder with a price tag lower than the Pixii?

I would never buy one, if they did. Few countries have a perfect record of respecting human rights, however China's transgressions are so egregious and so extensive that I cannot, in good conscience, countenance sending dollars their way if at all avoidable.

 

[Yokosuka Mike]

The ZEISS ZX1 Digital Camera is a rangefinder looking camera that I'm pretty sure is made in China. It cost $5,995.00 at B&H. Nobody that I know talks about this camera.

I doubt we will ever see a cheap digital rangefinder ever... made in China or anywhere else.

Furthermore, what's all this about pairing digital rangefinder cameras with iPhones or Smart Phones or whatever?

All the best,
Mike

 

[joe bosak]

... a "range/viewfinder" in which the viewfinder consisted of a phone-size camera, and the rangefinder consisted of a second camera, offset from the first to provide the moving image, plus electronics to combine both images in an EVF. A digital micrometer would read the coupling cam on the back of an M lens, providing the input for adjusting the moving image. There would be no moving parts at all except for the micrometer.

Could that be done without the micrometer and cam? Wouldn't work with manual lenses but would still be a digital RF:

- Two small sensor cameras in an RF assembly, with a means of adjusting the angle of one of them via a motor.
- EVF display of overlapping images
- Calculate/compute the subject distance from the RF cameras feed (obviously based on the angle), and transmit that to an electronically-adjusted lens
- With a fly-by-wire focusing ring on the lens to feed back to the RF motor, as the manual focus mechanism.

That might be do-able for reasonably cheap, cheaper still if it used a fixed lens. I'm sure that reminds me of something...

The looming question would be how many people would pay extra for the added parts compared to the cost of the base EVF mirrorless camera. Not many, I'd guess. Except for the Yi M1, China doesn't seem to have jumped into the camera-making business in a big way except as a manufacturing site for existing companies, so I suspect they don't see this as a business with a lot of upside.

Yes, I thought a follow-up to the M1 was expected at some point, but it never materialised.

 

[mapgraphs]

A film rangefinder perhaps? Reprise of the Bessa wouldn't be a stretch. Even an updated Barnack might have some appeal. With Cosina releasing a new 40mm Heliar LTM lens, they might be looking at what would interest the home market... Probably something to watch.

As for a new 'full-frame' digital rangefinder? One drawback would be the custom sensor design and fabrication. An off-the-shelf solution comes with a number of drawbacks. But perhaps more importantly, they would need to develop their own in-camera processing software. This would probably be a stretch for a small boutique brand. If I understand correctly, the Pixii's software is something of a work in progress.

On the other hand, rather than a Boutique brand, something like a digital Nikon S might be viable. They have the sensor design and software expertise.

 

[jsrockit]

I would never buy one, if they did. Few countries have a perfect record of respecting human rights, however China's transgressions are so egregious and so extensive that I cannot, in good conscience, countenance sending dollars their way if at all avoidable.

I understand your point, but surely 1.4 million people are not all bad. I mean, do we really hold all of those individuals responsible for the actions of their government? As an American, I hate when people assume things about me based on the horrible things our government does or has done.

 

[jsrockit]

On the other hand, rather than a Boutique brand, something like a digital Nikon S might be viable. They have the sensor design and software expertise.

No chance Nikon is making a digital rangefinder...

and to be clear to the others, I meant a mechanical rangefinder digital camera with an M mount.

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

I understand your point, but surely 1.4 million people are not all bad. I mean, do we really hold all of those individuals responsible for the actions of their government? As an American, I hate when people assume things about me based on the horrible things our government does or has done.

I couldn't agree more. Of course "they" (1.4 billion perhaps?) are "not all bad". My issue is with the government of China—not with people of Chinese origin (whether living in China, or elsewhere). The latter have my undiluted best wishes.

 

[Darthfeeble]

There's not much they would have to develop, they've been making Olympus cameras for years along with others. All the tech is there. Matters not to me, I won't buy their goods.

 

[das]

Why do we need a digital rangefinder? Throw those Leica M lenses on your mirrorless and call it a day. With any luck, you can get an autofocusing adapter plus all the bells and whistles that even an M11 cannot offer. Look at all the pro photogs using SL2s with RF glass. Seems to me the way to do it.