Godfrey
somewhat colored
Hey, what is this?
My post was "last edited by Sonnar Brian; 5 minutes ago"??
Since when do members' thoughts get edited by other members who are not moderators, eh?
And how is it that moderators do not converse with people on posts that they want to edit for some reason?
I guess since I have had no problems with Leica M and other digital camera electronics, and said that, I'm a troll. I guess RFF is only for people who agree with specific other members' thoughts.
So much for "free speech" and an open discussion of notions and opinions.
G
My post was "last edited by Sonnar Brian; 5 minutes ago"??
Since when do members' thoughts get edited by other members who are not moderators, eh?
And how is it that moderators do not converse with people on posts that they want to edit for some reason?
I guess since I have had no problems with Leica M and other digital camera electronics, and said that, I'm a troll. I guess RFF is only for people who agree with specific other members' thoughts.
So much for "free speech" and an open discussion of notions and opinions.
G
ptpdprinter
Veteran
I would sort of be worried about that too. Maybe jsrocket could elaborate on how Sonnar Brian managed to edit one of your posts.
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
If anything will excite this board it is the suggestion that other people do not love RF's, and around here that means love Leicas. I have an M8.2, M9, and two M240's. I suggest I can speak from experience on the subject. And while it is a good tool there are others. You must all know by now that the M9 + Cooke Amotal really thrills me. But RF's are a pain in the butt with this side-show arcade game of matching the images.
Reading these lengthy and wildly defensive posts about RF's, specifically Leica, is like listening to a dysfunctional family defend an alcoholic member, i. e, slightly irrational, sincere and passionate.
It is an old tool. Newer technology has been developed. Autofocus and IBIS for example. You are not required to use the latest tools. No one has suggested that you should. The article said that the tech in RF's is dated, and it is, and that it may be holding Leica back. Take a damned Xanax, lie down, and compose yourselves. I kind of feel sorry for some of you that there is so little going on in your lives that this simple post has your knickers in a knot. Sheesh. Why has this become a food fight? Why does anything outside of doctrine become a food fight? It only happens here, BTW. Other boards discuss just like adults. Give it a try.
Reading these lengthy and wildly defensive posts about RF's, specifically Leica, is like listening to a dysfunctional family defend an alcoholic member, i. e, slightly irrational, sincere and passionate.
It is an old tool. Newer technology has been developed. Autofocus and IBIS for example. You are not required to use the latest tools. No one has suggested that you should. The article said that the tech in RF's is dated, and it is, and that it may be holding Leica back. Take a damned Xanax, lie down, and compose yourselves. I kind of feel sorry for some of you that there is so little going on in your lives that this simple post has your knickers in a knot. Sheesh. Why has this become a food fight? Why does anything outside of doctrine become a food fight? It only happens here, BTW. Other boards discuss just like adults. Give it a try.
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
Because:
a) you purposely posted something provocative, presumably knowing full well that it wouldn't exactly be received well,
b) you then ignored (or even belittled) people's counterpoints/responses/reasons for wanting to use a rangefinder (comparing them to defending alcoholics? seriously?), and
c) you come across like a hypocrite considering how much glowing, rhapsodical praise you initially levelled at the Pixii (only to totally change your stance when the wind changed).
Also, on a personal level, I find it hilarious that you're calling the rangefinder itself dated when every second post you've made recently has referenced that Amotal - which in itself is an archaic lens that I have yet to see a single image from that made me do anything but shrug my shoulders and go "meh".
JeffS7444
Well-known
It doesn't need to make sense, any more than an automatic wristwatch, fountain pen or stick-shift.
Leica makes more "modern" cameras in the form of the S, SL and Q systems, but whether they will have the same lasting emotional appeal is another matter.
Leica makes more "modern" cameras in the form of the S, SL and Q systems, but whether they will have the same lasting emotional appeal is another matter.
fireblade
Vincenzo.
If Eskimos want to buy icecream sticks, make them and sell them... the market is there.
ptpdprinter
Veteran
Don't forget his love affair with the CCD sensor in his M9, while the rest of the world has moved on to the newer, more technologically advanced CMOS sensors. Just look at the sales figures!
oldwino
Well-known
Wow.
This may be the most pointless thread of 2022.
This may be the most pointless thread of 2022.
james.liam
Well-known
Serving up steaks at a Vegan's wedding banquet.
I have never seen anything
like that. It could be a problem or mistake with the site. Sorry Godfrey, but we both know you are not in the habit of trolling so I think it is a problem of some sort. Brian, did you edit the post?
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Brian sent me a PM. He explained that he had quoted my post and added something, and this is what the RFF forum software did with it. It doesn't surprise me ... the RFF forum software has been flakey and weird since the new version came up. On my system, sometimes it won't load at all, sometimes it drops the network connection, responses to posts sometimes take forever to finish, and it puts up inscrutable error messages that make no sense fairly frequently. I've tried to assemble some examples to post to the system management, but it all happens so inconsistently and at odd juxtapositions I find it hard to write a useful bug report. But it's obvious that there are some weird bugs in this implementation of the forum.
G
ptpdprinter
Veteran
I think there is a lot of competition for the most pointless thread of 2022, and we still have over seven weeks to go. Strap in.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
The gist of my post that was lost:
-1- Articles like the one that boojum posted to kick off this thread are an awful waste of time and energy with no useful information.
-2- Brian suggested that Leica was way behind the curve on their firmware development. My personal experience through four digital Leica Ms, and four other Leica digital cameras, has nearly all been 100% positive with flawless performance and no problems tracing to firmware. The two problems I've had were both mechanical issues: the M9 sensor corrosion and my X2 four way controller needing replacement due to a failure of one of its contacts. Other cameras I've had have fared far far worse.
Update to that: It's obvious to me that the M10 model's power management has been improved compared to the M9, M240, and M262 series cameras. With those three prior series cameras, operational performance became degraded when battery power levels dropped under the 25% line. I have twice-three times now been using the M10 Monochrom with no issues whatever, not looking at the battery, only to find that only a couple of percent power remained at the end of my effort. That indicates, to me, that Leica is in fact listening to issues and improving the products in the firmware domain. (Note that the degraded performance with low batteries of the earlier models is not unusual, in my experience, with some of the other cameras I've used over the years.)
-3- The interchangeable lens rangefinder camera was announced obsolete in the 1960s with the introduction of reliable, reasonably priced SLR cameras because the latter provide more lens versatility, particularly for telephoto and close up work. Nothing new about calling RFs obsolete. But a lot of obsolete things remain perfectly useful and function well despite their obsolescence, the obsolescence in this case posing some restrictions on versatility.
I'm delighted to see Leica continuing their development of the M as well as their other camera lines. I'll be using my Leica digital and film Ms for quite a long time to come.
G
-1- Articles like the one that boojum posted to kick off this thread are an awful waste of time and energy with no useful information.
-2- Brian suggested that Leica was way behind the curve on their firmware development. My personal experience through four digital Leica Ms, and four other Leica digital cameras, has nearly all been 100% positive with flawless performance and no problems tracing to firmware. The two problems I've had were both mechanical issues: the M9 sensor corrosion and my X2 four way controller needing replacement due to a failure of one of its contacts. Other cameras I've had have fared far far worse.
Update to that: It's obvious to me that the M10 model's power management has been improved compared to the M9, M240, and M262 series cameras. With those three prior series cameras, operational performance became degraded when battery power levels dropped under the 25% line. I have twice-three times now been using the M10 Monochrom with no issues whatever, not looking at the battery, only to find that only a couple of percent power remained at the end of my effort. That indicates, to me, that Leica is in fact listening to issues and improving the products in the firmware domain. (Note that the degraded performance with low batteries of the earlier models is not unusual, in my experience, with some of the other cameras I've used over the years.)
-3- The interchangeable lens rangefinder camera was announced obsolete in the 1960s with the introduction of reliable, reasonably priced SLR cameras because the latter provide more lens versatility, particularly for telephoto and close up work. Nothing new about calling RFs obsolete. But a lot of obsolete things remain perfectly useful and function well despite their obsolescence, the obsolescence in this case posing some restrictions on versatility.
I'm delighted to see Leica continuing their development of the M as well as their other camera lines. I'll be using my Leica digital and film Ms for quite a long time to come.
G
gavinlg
Veteran
No rangefinder no care. The manual focussing keeps the lenses small, keeps the experience pure, and RF focussing is still the most connected way to use a camera to me. An EVF would bring about a watering down of the M concept.
I have been using Fuji for many, many years and during that time I did not use a rangefinder. Recently I was using a Voigtlander Bessa R2 and liked it so I bought a Voigtlander Fuji X lens for my Fuji thinking it would be similar in spirit to using a rangefinder. Well, I did not like using an evf for manual focus (or any other Fuji method) at all and film is not something I want to commit to anymore. So, basically, for me, there was no choice. I had to buy an M240. It simply is the only manual focus type I like and sometimes I like to manually focus. I still use all of my AF cameras too, but it feels good to have two rangefinders again after many years of not using them.
Darthfeeble
But you can call me Steve
Yep, and Yep. I have a couple Fuji X cameras and I love them dearly but manual focus with my M lenses is just not a game I want to play. I have an Epson and an M10 as well as a few Voigtlander RF cameras and they are all perfectly easy to manually focus. Obsolete, I don't think so, there are a few things that I'd like to see Leica come into the 21st century with, notably in camera sensor cleaning. I think that should be mandatory for an interchangeable lens camera.
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
Fortunately what you care means nothing to me.
Fortunately you do not practice any form of medicine.
Unfortunately you think you can read my mind and divine my purposes. You are, at best, mistaken. I suggest you seek counseling for extreme sensitivity, Despite what you think, it is not about you. You may like to think it is but where it concerns me be assured, you do not even enter my mind. You are at best inconsequential to me.
I posted a link to an article that I found interesting and agree with. If that is offensive, buddy, you need help and a lot of it. Get over yourself, and that should be easy as there is not much to get over. To say you are childish would be an insult to children.
I still use and enjoy the Pixii, BTW. It is a good camera. You should buy one and try it out.
Contarama
Well-known
I have a slr and a dslr and a bunch of mf lenses and they are not Leicas. I hang out on a rf forum and have always enjoyed it and the people here. I am sort of worried that I'm obsolete. LOL
One question I have though is why have I always wanted a M2 and a 50mm lens???
Please continue the bs :matchup: match...it is making me feel better about myself. Validation. Haha
One question I have though is why have I always wanted a M2 and a 50mm lens???
Please continue the bs :matchup: match...it is making me feel better about myself. Validation. Haha
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
You know, I posted a link to an article and said I agreed with it. Folks here have taken it as a personal insult. Life is poor when one has to shop for an insult.
The premise that rangefinders are old technology is obvious. I do enjoy that folks here have such open minds about that and welcome contrary opinions without whining. It makes discussion better and provokes learning. I, too, have a bunch of cameras. I would only have one if it were perfect. Or even if it served all my purposes. Maybe I am not just as willing to settle for the less thans. But you know how it is, you pays yer money and you makes yer choices. You make yours, I make mine.
The premise that rangefinders are old technology is obvious. I do enjoy that folks here have such open minds about that and welcome contrary opinions without whining. It makes discussion better and provokes learning. I, too, have a bunch of cameras. I would only have one if it were perfect. Or even if it served all my purposes. Maybe I am not just as willing to settle for the less thans. But you know how it is, you pays yer money and you makes yer choices. You make yours, I make mine.
santino
FSU gear head
When one does not enjoy the rangefinder it is definitely time to let the rangefinder go. Do not compare apples with oranges.