S3 2000 Rangefinder/Viewfinder contrast question

[Steinberg2010]

I notice that the classic S3/S4 cameras get some criticism for lack of contrast in the viewfinder compared to contemporaneous Leica bodies. I'm curious how the 2000 remake of the S3 compares? Is the viewfinder contrast significantly better/comparable to Leica bodies?

~S

 

[Gordon Moat]

I’ve used an old M3 years ago, and the M6TTL and M7. Compared to the Nikon S3 2000, all those Leica bodies have a fairly well defined rangefinder patch. On the S3 2000, the rangefinder patch doesn’t have sharply defined edges. Contrast of the rangefinder patch is good. In use, I try to find clearly defined lines and edges in my image, on which to focus the S3 2000. I cannot really say which is better, Nikon or Leica, because they’re used a bit differently. The frame lines are definitely better defined on the Leica bodies, and on the M7 (and M6 TTL) I never had flaring issues. That said, those cameras are a step up in spending over an S3 2000. I think the Leica bodies may be slightly faster to focus, though my feeling is that the S3 2000 is more accurate due to the longer focus throw.

 

[splitimageview]

If you're speaking of the RF patch (as opposed to the viewfinder as a whole) it really comes down to the individual camera. I've owned and/or handled a large number of the S2, S3, S4, SP over the years, and most of them had plenty of contrast, similar contrast to a well-cared for Leica M RF patch. But those that were stored for years in hot attics or humid garages...or otherwise neglected in some manner, could have faint or non-existent RF patches. FWIW, the same thing can happen to neglected Leicas...

In other words I've seen vintage S3s that have strong RF patches and framelines, as strong as S3 2000s, which are now 23 years old!

 

[armadsen]

My S3 2000’s rangefinder patch is much worse than my Leica MP. I sometimes can’t find it without moving around a bit and adjusting focus so it moves and stands out in my vision. By contrast, I never have any trouble seeing my Leica’s patch.

(I still love the S3 and shoot it regularly.)

 

[Steinberg2010]

Good to know - sounds like there’s a lot of sample variation. I’m definitely a ‘50’ guy - I’m wondering if it might be my forever camera…I’ve always been curious about them with that little wheel to focus. But I’ve sort of seen them as a less refined system - but now, I am thinking that maybe they’re like an older Land Rover Defender…

 

[splitimageview]

As far as the re-issues, I haven't seen any faded patches, although I suppose after 23 years they could easily exist. Mostly it comes down a 'fuzzy undefined edge' patch as compared to the hard edge of the Leica. If you're used to Leica it might seem weird at first, especially if you like to focus using that edge as a split image, as opposed to the patch itself as a double image. Just takes a couple of rolls to get used to the difference. Offsetting the patch difference is the advantage of a life size view and greater focusing accuracy, and easier loading, I prefer the removable back.

FWIW, I disabled the focus wheel on my S2.

 

[armadsen]

The focus wheel is a cool idea, but it’s thin with sharp knurling and kind of hurts my finger to use much, especially with a heavier lens mounted. Therefore, I mostly just turn the lens directly like any other camera.

 

[Thatspec]

Find my S3 2000 easier to nail focus on than either M3 or M240 despite the undefined edges of the patch, can't say why though. Sometimes you have to move your eye around a bit. Never found flare to be annoying.

 

[Gordon Moat]

Good to know - sounds like there’s a lot of sample variation. I’m definitely a ‘50’ guy - I’m wondering if it might be my forever camera…I’ve always been curious about them with that little wheel to focus. But I’ve sort of seen them as a less refined system - but now, I am thinking that maybe they’re like an older Land Rover Defender…

The 50mm f1,4 that comes with the S3 2000 is much tougher to focus with the wheel. Easier to just focus by turning the lens. I have the Voigtländer 25mm too, which is easy to focus with the wheel on the body. Seems like lens weight affects wheel usage.

 

[Roel]

The 50mm f1,4 that comes with the S3 2000 is much tougher to focus with the wheel. Easier to just focus by turning the lens. I have the Voigtländer 25mm too, which is easy to focus with the wheel on the body. Seems like lens weight affects wheel usage.

True, that is also my experience. The 50mm is difficult and not comfortable to turn with the wheel.

 

[MikeL]

While the contrast difference (with low light, for my eyes) and patch edges might make the Nikon rangefinders a different experience, I sure like the 1:1 viewfinder and using both eyes with a 50mm.

 

[steveyork]

In my experience using a half dozen or so S2's and several original S3, an original SP and many vintage M's, the Leica's are more consistent. The rangefinder patches on those cameras all had excellent contrast (5-6 M2, 3 M3, AN M4, 3-4 M5). Nikons on the otherhand had much more variation, ranging from good too terrible. On average the S2 has the best contrast for a Nikon rangefinder; probably the best shooter of the bunch. The 1.0x mag viewfinder of Nikon rangefinders is intoxicating though. I suspect an S3 limited is better compared to an original S3, but not as nice as a Leica, either new or vintage, in my opinion, when it comes to contrast of the rangefinder patch. Actually flare and lack of contrast were reasons I got rid of the vintage S3 I once owned. Useable though. Check YouTube for video of rangefinder patch. Separate question whether the 1.0x mag viewfinder offset the lack of contrast. Not for me, in my limited experience.

 

[das]

The new S3's rangefinder patch is ok. Something comparable to like a Canon V or VI. If one is used to the large rectangle of a Leica M, the S3 will be disappointing. The more glaring problem with the S3 is its overly-cluttered viewfinder and lack of parallax correction, which makes the 105mm frameline useless at closer distances for accurate framing and also for glasses-wearers makes the camera difficult to use with a 35mm FL lens. To me, the entire camera is optimized for non-glasses-wearing right-eyed shooters. Given its ho-hum viewfinder/rangefinder system I am not even sure what camera the S3 would supposed to compete with. Even the fixed-framelines Canon P had parallax correction.

 

[justins7]

My original S3 has really lousy rangefinder patch contrast, and along with the glare it definitely feels like an inferior viewfinder compared to my Leica M3, which is older. I added a small square of black electric tape on the outside glass, which does help a bit. But in the end I find myself wanting to go back to the M3.

 

[xayraa33]

The focus wheel is a cool idea, but it’s thin with sharp knurling and kind of hurts my finger to use much, especially with a heavier lens mounted. Therefore, I mostly just turn the lens directly like any other camera.

Some Kiev 4 and 4a cameras are the same way...a lot depends on how clean and well lubed the focus helical(s)
are.