LAB-BOX ... who is using one and are they worth the money?

[Keith]

Yeah, if at any point the Lab-Box sounds unreasonably tricky, just pause and remember what it's like loading film onto reels in complete darkness (or a changing bag) when you're new to it.

I used a changing back a couple of times and then gave up on it and made myself a light proof enclosure in the corner of the room. South East Queensland/Brisbane is no place for changing bags ... the moment you put your arms in the things you begin to sweat and the whole situation becomes unworkable very rapidly!

 

[KoNickon]

Oh yeah, another thing to point out: you cannot reuse the reel and tank before you've dried it out. Winding film onto the reel when wet is a big no-no and will mess up the placement and ruin your film. Ask me how I know.

This is true for "traditional" reels too though, right?

 

[wlewisiii]

This is true for "traditional" reels too though, right?

Plastic ones, yes. The good stainless ones though are not as touchy in my experience, especially the Nikon branded ones.

The advantage the plastic ones have is that they can have the twisty motion thing that helps you click the film onto them.

I think I only have steel ones any more but i haven't used them in a long time, only my Rondinax box or the local lab.

 

[ray*j*gun]

Yep that's for sure.

Yeah, if at any point the Lab-Box sounds unreasonably tricky, just pause and remember what it's like loading film onto reels in complete darkness (or a changing bag) when you're new to it.

 

[Freakscene]

Plastic ones, yes. The good stainless ones though are not as touchy in my experience, especially the Nikon branded ones.

The advantage the plastic ones have is that they can have the twisty motion thing that helps you click the film onto them.

I think I only have steel ones any more but i haven't used them in a long time, only my Rondinax box or the local lab.

Nikor (_not_ Nikkor or Nikon) and Hewes steel reels work fine wet. Soaking even. You don’t need to shake them off.

Plastic reels need to be dry. Very dry. When I lived in Brisbane I put them in an incubator or dried them with a hair dryer. Otherwise it was a diss-ast-er.

Steel reels eventually build up wetting agent. I used to put them in a dishwasher once per 15-20 rolls/uses.

 

[KoNickon]

Why do the plastic reels have this problem and not the steel? One would think that a wet surface is a wet surface, whether steel or plastic.

 

[armadsen]

Why do the plastic reels have this problem and not the steel? One would think that a wet surface is a wet surface, whether steel or plastic.

Because when you load a plastic reel, the film slides across the surface of the reel "tracks", and if they're wet, the water causes the film emulsion to swell up and become sticky, meaning the film can no longer slide freely through the the reel. (And this is leaving aside the effect on the back-and-forth friction loading system.)
When you load a stainless steel reel, you basically continually lay the film directly into the innermost track, it doesn't slide through the entire length of the outer spirals before getting into place, and therefore doesn't really slide across the surface of the reel at all. Also, the overall surface area of contact between the reel spirals and the film is a bit lower, just due to the shape of the reels (which have a round cross section, not flat).

 

[KoNickon]

Got it! Thanks. And presumably using a changing bag in a humid environment can add to the problem.

 

[agentlossing]

This is true for "traditional" reels too though, right?

Yes, however, the big difference is that you can't see or feel what is happening inside the Lab-Box, unless the winding gets so rough that you can tell something is going wrong. In the darkroom I could always tell by feel when the film wasn't spooling correctly.

 

[Keith]

Nikor (_not_ Nikkor) and Hewes steel reels work fine wet. Soaking even. You don’t need to shake them off.

Plastic reels need to be dry. Very dry. When I lived in Brisbane I put them in an incubator or dried them with a hair dryer. Otherwise it was a diss-ast-er.

Steel reels eventually build up wetting agent. I used to put them in a dishwasher nice per 15-20 rolls/uses.

I would imagine that a soak in a mild solution of CLR would be a good way to keep them clean. In my experience the plastic reels need to be really clean as well ... the slightest trace moisture on a Paterson reel is instant disaster as you say.

 

[ranger9]

Because when you load a plastic reel, the film slides across the surface of the reel "tracks", and if they're wet, the water causes the film emulsion to swell up and become sticky, meaning the film can no longer slide freely through the the reel. (And this is leaving aside the effect on the back-and-forth friction loading system.)
When you load a stainless steel reel, you basically continually lay the film directly into the innermost track, it doesn't slide through the entire length of the outer spirals before getting into place, and therefore doesn't really slide across the surface of the reel at all. Also, the overall surface area of contact between the reel spirals and the film is a bit lower, just due to the shape of the reels (which have a round cross section, not flat).

You can actually load most plastic reels the same way - by starting the film at the inner end of the groove and then rolling outward. It's trickier because there's no clip to hold the film, but it can be done.

 

[Godfrey]

Yes, however, the big difference is that you can't see or feel what is happening inside the Lab-Box, unless the winding gets so rough that you can tell something is going wrong. In the darkroom I could always tell by feel when the film wasn't spooling correctly.

The same is true in the Agfa Rondinax tanks.. You do acquire a feel for when they're loading correctly, or not, over time. I've processed about 200-250 rolls of film in Rondinax and the Lab Box tanks: only experienced one mis-load. The trickiest part of using the Lab Box is as someone else mentioned: loading 120 format (6x6, 12 shot) film without clipping a frame. The Rondinax-60 seems to give a little more leeway in that regard.

I've never even tried to load either stainless or plastic reels when they're wet. I wash them and dry them with a hair blower if I need to do more than one roll in a day. (... Or just pull out another tank, having a couple of spares Rondinax or Lab Box is good for that. 🙂 )

G

 

[cvansas]

I use the lab box after I had many types of dev machines varying from Jobo CPE to ATL to patterson tanks. contrary to what most people say I find the lab box quite easy to use and a really good solution for one roll at a time development. For multiple rolls I would use a Jobo tank that accepts 4 rolls at a time but since I in that case send the rolls out to te lab this system just works like a charm when you immediately want to see the result or when you have simple development in black and white. I anyhow quit color development myself in order to avoid the health risks that comes with the C41 chems.

 

[cvansas]

I use the lab box after I had many types of dev machines varying from Jobo CPE to ATL to patterson tanks. contrary to what most people say I find the lab box quite easy to use and a really good solution for one roll at a time development. For multiple rolls I would use a Jobo tank that accepts 4 rolls at a time but since I in that case send the rolls out to te lab this system just works like a charm when you immediately want to see the result or when you have simple development in black and white. I anyhow quit color development myself in order to avoid the health risks that comes with the C41 chems.

ps. the negative feedback from people not being able to get decent 120 or 35mm negs developed is mostly because they didnt read the manual. in my opinion this divice is highly recommended for starters, photographers that need a simple compact and user friendly setup.

 

[ranger9]

ps. the negative feedback from people not being able to get decent 120 or 35mm negs developed is mostly because they didnt read the manual. in my opinion this divice is highly recommended for starters, photographers that need a simple compact and user friendly setup.

I admit I like using mine a lot more after I built a motor agitator with a piece of bent metal and a handful of hobby robotics parts:

 

[KoNickon]

These things are very tempting, I have to admit, though of course I'd still need to get the chemicals (and maintain them). But I am retiring next year....

 

[Beemermark]

I bought the Lab-box last year when I temporarily lost the use of my darkroom. Bought an extra reel for 120. Worked ok but once I got a darkroom going again I’ve gone back to my SS reels and tank. The only negative for me was I could only do one roll of 35mm and one roll of 120 per day. I’m not even sure what closet it in.

 

[wlewisiii]

I have considered the LabBox for 120 but without any way to scan 120 I have no reason to get it in the end.

 

[Beemermark]

I have considered the LabBox for 120 but without any way to scan 120 I have no reason to get it in the end.

The reel that comes with the lab box is adjustable for 35mm or 120. I just bought them extra reel so I didn’t have to change it everytime.

 

[Godfrey]

I have considered the LabBox for 120 but without any way to scan 120 I have no reason to get it in the end.

How do you scan your 35mm? It's not hard to scan 120 with a copy camera approach.

G