Adox MCC 110 is sold out. Why?

[x-ray]

You were indicating you didn’t understand why prices were going up which suggests you don’t know why. Yes I’d you’d thought about it a minute you might have come up with the reason.

 

[Erik van Straten]

The question was of course why Adox doesn´t make paper anymore.

Erik.

 

[x-ray]

We are three years later, but there is still no prospect of new Adox paper. Ilford raises her prices again and again. At Fotoimpex in Berlin, a box of 100 sheets of Ilford 7 x 9.5 in now costs EUR 132.90.

This is your quote that I responded to.

Why not contact them direct rather than ask people that have no more idea than you do? Get the answer straight from them.

 

[x-ray]

Unfortunately over the many decades I’ve been printing I’ve seen many of my favorite papers disappear. DuPont Varilour, Ansco Indigo, Forte Poly Warmtone Plus, Kodak Ektalure, several Agfa papers just to name a few. The same has happened with a number of film emulsions and developers.

I hated to see Agfa color transparency (E-6) emulsions go away. Ther 50 snd 100 speed were beautiful warm warm and soft colors. The old E-3 process Ektachrome professional of the 60’s into the 70’s had beautiful blues and spring greens with warm soft skin tones. Many many of my favorite B&W film emulsions are gone, Ektapress sheet film, Super Pancro Press B, Agfa 100 and 25, Adox KB14 and KB17, Fuji 400, Efke Adox 50 and let’s not forget SuperXX, Royal Pan and our favorite, original Tri-X, not the garbage introduced in 2006.

It’s unfortunate but that’s the way life is. Life moves on and we work with what we have.

 

[Deleted member 65559]

A little over a year ago, Mirko Böddecker from Fotoimpex said this:

"In respect to PW we are done with most R&D and technically ready to produce. However papers have not taken the route of film. Their prices are still unrealistically low with paper production capacities exceeding demand by far and the industry is stuck in the old price-trap which has ruined it over the past 20 years. We are technically cabaple of manufacturing Polywarmtone but economically we are not. Or in other words (again): The cost per sqm of producing Polywarmtone on our scale will exceed the acceptable market price.

This does not mean we will not release Polywarmtone but we are ready to manufacture it in boutique quantities at boutique prices for now.
In the future this will change when either paper prices become more realistic in respect to their production costs or if we become more productive with upgrades in our machinery."

 

[x-ray]

It all comes down whether they can make enough profit to make production worth while. And the question is are people ready to pay the price? Most of us have a limit.

Film skyrocketed but I have enough to last a long time and at my age I’m not sure how long I’ll want to shoot film. Been there done that for a long long time.

I’ve had a renewed interest in color recently and finally came to grips that digital color is the way to go now so I’m shooting digital. But, I’m not quite there on B&W. Not quite ready to give that up at least until my film and paper run out.

 

[PRJ]

I wouldn't hold my breath for Adox to make paper anytime soon, if ever. If they wanted to make it they would.

Since Xray mentioned color film I am also leaning toward just shooting digital most of the time. I still like the process of film and have a bunch of it laying around. Black and white though is way different so I stick with film for that. Color I can go either way.

There are a lot of ways to make a print too. I use up my old silver gelatin paper by making lumen prints. The paper isn't good to print on since it is so foggy. Lith printing is another option for old silver paper. Not all papers lith or lumen well, but some do. I also make cyanotypes and occasionally gum prints. Those require a digital neg though. Cyanotypes in particular are fairly cheap to make.

I've been using Ilford warmtone lately. That stuff ain't cheap. It is the best paper around now though, not that there is much choice.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Thank you. PRJ! Yes, Ilford produces many kinds of paper of excellent quality, but these are very expensive. Usually when there is a high quality product on the market there is a cheaper alternative. For me the old Adox paper was good enough as I only use prints to scan them. The big difference between Adox and Ilford was the tone of the "white"; Adox was a tad darker. So for exposition prints there was Ilford and for "users" there was the substantially cheaper Adox.

As Adox bought their unprepared paper from Ilford, Ilford enhanced the price of their "raw" paper so Adox could not make their products at that lower price level anymore. They say that until now they did not find an alternative paper supplier wich is strange because there are many excellent paper manufacturers around.

Erik.

 

[Freakscene]

I wouldn't hold my breath for Adox to make paper anytime soon, if ever. If they wanted to make it they would.

Since Xray mentioned color film I am also leaning toward just shooting digital most of the time. I still like the process of film and have a bunch of it laying around. Black and white though is way different so I stick with film for that. Color I can go either way.

There are a lot of ways to make a print too. I use up my old silver gelatin paper by making lumen prints. The paper isn't good to print on since it is so foggy. Lith printing is another option for old silver paper. Not all papers lith or lumen well, but some do. I also make cyanotypes and occasionally gum prints. Those require a digital neg though. Cyanotypes in particular are fairly cheap to make.

I've been using Ilford warmtone lately. That stuff ain't cheap. It is the best paper around now though, not that there is much choice.

Adox are making a lot of paper, just not the MCC110 that Erik is looking for.

I do almost all my silver printing on Adox Lupex, a silver (mostly) chloride printing paper for contact printing. They also make a resin coated multigrade paper branded Fotoimpex. And they are still progressing their development of Polywarmton.

Marty

 

[Erik van Straten]

Adox are making a lot of paper, just not the MCC110 that Erik is looking for.

I do almost all my silver printing on Adox Lupex, a silver (mostly) chloride printing paper for contact printing. They also make a resin coated multigrade paper branded Fotoimpex. And they are still progressing their development of Polywarmton.

Marty

RC or resin coated is a misnomer as the paper is actually a paper layer sandwiched between two layers of polythene. This means the paper layer does not get wet during processing. We called it "plastic paper". It was not sustainable at all. It discolored in front of you. If you stacked the photos, they stuck together. Pure waste of money. It had a plastic smell too.

They stopped making MCC110 because they sourced the paper used for it from Ilford, their biggest competitor. Ilford themselves made sure that the paper was so expensive that MCC110 could not remain a cheaper alternative to Ilford Multigrade FB. However, that was many years ago. It's hard for me to believe that Adox can't find another paper. That's why I don't understand the situation.

Erik.

 

[Freakscene]

RC or resin coated is a misnomer as the paper is actually a paper layer sandwiched between two layers of polythene. This means the paper layer does not get wet during processing. We called it "plastic paper". It was not sustainable at all. It discolored in front of you. If you stacked the photos, they stuck together. Pure waste of money. It had a plastic smell too.

They stopped making MCC110 because they sourced the paper used for it from Ilford, their biggest competitor. Ilford themselves made sure that the paper was so expensive that MCC110 could not remain a cheaper alternative to Ilford Multigrade FB. However, that was many years ago. It's hard for me to believe that Adox can't find another paper. That's why I don't understand the situation.

Erik.

RC paper is fine for what it is - quick prints for proofing, or unfussy clients. Yes, we purists all prefer fibre base paper, and the surface textures are particularly amazing. I have prints going back to the 1980s and the only ones I have ever had discolour were FB prints that weren’t fixed properly.

Adox have plenty of paper. They are selling heaps of Lupex. Mirko and the team have been quite clear - the current prices are mot sustainable for them to attempt to compete with. If buyers were willing to buy MC 110 for the Lupex price, they would make it, and probably would be making it now. It is substantially kore expensive than Ilford MG FB.

 

[Erik van Straten]

No, I wouldn't buy MCC110 when it was more expensive than Ilford MGFB. MGFB is the better paper - the white is quite a lot whiter than MCC 110 - and I would buy MCC110 only if it was 3/4 of the price of Ilford MGFB. But now there is no choice. That's not good.


gelatin silver print (ilford mgfb) summar 50mm f2 (leica m3)

Amsterdam 2023

Erik.

 

[Freakscene]

No, I wouldn't buy MCC110 when it was more expensive than Ilford MGFB. MGFB is the better paper - the white is quite a lot whiter than MCC 110 - and I would buy MCC110 only if it was 3/4 of the price of Ilford MGFB. But now there is no choice. That's not good.


gelatin silver print (ilford mgfb) summar 50mm f2 (leica m3)

Amsterdam 2023

Erik.

Have you tried Bergger or Foma? Foma is substantially cheaper than Ilford, and although the exposure and development times differ, it has a similar base colour and can provide a similar tonal range. The FB glossy is Fomatone MG 131. It is €58.50 for 50 sheets of 18x24cm including tax at Fotoimpex. That’s at least some choice, but we also have to understand that this is becoming a niche alternative process.

This is from a Plus-X negative printed on Foma. Prague, 2009.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Thank you, Freakscene, maybe I'll try Foma, it looks good, great shot, beautiful print.

Erik.

 

[Erik van Straten]

gelatin silver print (elmar 50mm f3.5) leica la

Amsterdam, 2022

Erik.

 

[OmegaB600]

alot of companies can make the paper.

What I am wondering is if the "secret" reason is NOT paper itself,, but something sprayed onto the paper before Adox recieves it