TLR Hunting: Source for CLA

[Godfrey]

Hi Godfrey -

The three-element Yashica lens was the Yashikor. I never heard that the last of the Yashica-Mats got the lesser lens. That would be something to watch for.

Regarding the Planar and Xenotar lenses compared to the Tessars, I believe Modern Photography did a comparison test of the Rolleiflex Tessar vs the new Planar and Xenotar, finding that the main difference was at wide apertures. At smaller apertures, they found the difference to be negligible. I'm guessing your experience isn't consistent with that.

- Murray

Yes, Yashikor ... and the last of the Yashicamat 124G were fitted with them. I know this for sure because I ordered one for a friend and tested it against my earlier 'Mat 124G, and it was really rather poor on performance—only sharp at about f/8-f/11, and even then poor on edges and corners. It was so disappointing that I sent it back, sold my 124G to my friend, because I'd picked up a very nice '52 Rolleiflex MX at about that time.

And the Modern Photography test on Rolleiflex Planar/Xenotar vs Tessar/Xenar matched my experience: the five (six?) element lenses gave much more even illumination across the field at the larger apertures, making f/3.5 to f/5.6 much more useful. At f/8-f/16, the Tessar/Xenar were almost the same. Of course, the Planar/Xenotar f/2.8 models gave another increment of lens performance too, at the expense of much more weight and the propensity of the front standard to need adjustment more frequently.

I switched to Hasselblad in the early '00s, sold off all my Rolleiflexes (I had three at that point), but honestly I miss the TLRs, particularly the '52 Rolleiflex MX. It is a very well balanced camera, lighter (sans meter) and handier than the later models. The Hassies, however, hit a different standard of performance, albeit they're better suited to being tripod use vs "handy walkabout" cameras.

G

 

[Retro-Grouch]

I have lenses in five focal lengths for my Mamiya TLRs. They offered seven, but I got the ones I wanted. My other TLRs all have fixed lenses.

I have Rolleiflexes, among others, but my favorite TLRs are the Minolta Autocords and the Mamiyas. I think the Mamiya professional system TLRs were brilliant. People often compare them to Rolleis and complain that they don't have the same "jewel-like" quality. As I see it, Mamiya took more inspiration from LF view cameras in the design of their TLRs, and from that perspective I find them very pragmatically designed and exceptionally well executed. The Tele-Rolleis didn't have enough focusing extension. Mamiya built a bellows into their TLRs so that there would be adequate extension for normal focusing of lenses up to 250mm. It also allowed extreme close-up focusing with shorter focal lengths (almost 1:1 with the 55mm lens and approximately 1:2 with the 80mm.

- Murray

I heartily agree with your assessment of the Mamiya TLRs! But while it is of benefit, I suppose, to have the ability to shoot 1:1 with a Mamiya, that's always seemed to me to be a choice of the wrong tool for the job, what with futzing with a Paramender, and having no DOF preview. Otherwise, that "jewel-like quality" that's supposedly missing is a question of aesthetics. While the Mamiyas' Brutalist look may not appeal to those who enjoy the refined Deco styling of the Rolleis, it's one I appreciate equally. And I'll certainly maintain that the Mamiyas (through the C33) are every bit the equal of a Rollei in precision and durability; after the C33, too much plastic. My favorite is the C3. Rugged and capable, and fitted with a fast f/2.8 normal that is outstanding, it's every bit the equal of my Rollei, and the camera I grab much more often... except when I want to travel light!

 

[CMur12]

Yes, Yashikor ... and the last of the Yashicamat 124G were fitted with them. I know this for sure because I ordered one for a friend and tested it against my earlier 'Mat 124G, and it was really rather poor on performance—only sharp at about f/8-f/11, and even then poor on edges and corners. It was so disappointing that I sent it back, sold my 124G to my friend, because I'd picked up a very nice '52 Rolleiflex MX at about that time.

And the Modern Photography test on Rolleiflex Planar/Xenotar vs Tessar/Xenar matched my experience: the five (six?) element lenses gave much more even illumination across the field at the larger apertures, making f/3.5 to f/5.6 much more useful. At f/8-f/16, the Tessar/Xenar were almost the same. Of course, the Planar/Xenotar f/2.8 models gave another increment of lens performance too, at the expense of much more weight and the propensity of the front standard to need adjustment more frequently.

I switched to Hasselblad in the early '00s, sold off all my Rolleiflexes (I had three at that point), but honestly I miss the TLRs, particularly the '52 Rolleiflex MX. It is a very well balanced camera, lighter (sans meter) and handier than the later models. The Hassies, however, hit a different standard of performance, albeit they're better suited to being tripod use vs "handy walkabout" cameras.

G

I've always especially liked Tessar and Tessar-type lenses for medium format. I see them as "dual-purpose" lenses: Optimized for portraiture with a little softness and light fall-off at f/3.5 - f/5.6, and optimized for landscape at f/8 - f/16. 😎

- Murray

 

[CMur12]

I heartily agree with your assessment of the Mamiya TLRs! But while it is of benefit, I suppose, to have the ability to shoot 1:1 with a Mamiya, that's always seemed to me to be a choice of the wrong tool for the job, what with futzing with a Paramender, and having no DOF preview. Otherwise, that "jewel-like quality" that's supposedly missing is a question of aesthetics. While the Mamiyas' Brutalist look may not appeal to those who enjoy the refined Deco styling of the Rolleis, it's one I appreciate equally. And I'll certainly maintain that the Mamiyas (through the C33) are every bit the equal of a Rollei in precision and durability; after the C33, too much plastic. My favorite is the C3. Rugged and capable, and fitted with a fast f/2.8 normal that is outstanding, it's every bit the equal of my Rollei, and the camera I grab much more often... except when I want to travel light!

My C330f is a rather weighty chunk that never struck me as plasticky, but I haven't actually handled a C3 or C33 to compare. I've heard that the C330S had more plastic than the "f". I have a very battered, cosmetically challenged old Mamiyaflex C2 with an early chrome 135mm lens and 10 - 11 leaves in the diaphragm. I think the chrome lens is cool, but I prefer the C330f.

I like the collapsing waist-level finder of the C330f better than the fold-down-leaf waist-level finder of earlier Mamiya TLRs.

- Murray

 

[Retro-Grouch]

My C330f is a rather weighty chunk that never struck me as plasticky, but I haven't actually handled a C3 or C33 to compare. I've heard that the C330S had more plastic than the "f". I have a very battered, cosmetically challenged old Mamiyaflex C2 with an early chrome 135mm lens and 10 - 11 leaves in the diaphragm. I think the chrome lens is cool, but I prefer the C330f.

I like the collapsing waist-level finder of the C330f better than the fold-down-leaf waist-level finder of earlier Mamiya TLRs.

- Murray

Well, to be honest, the whole plastic thing is just a pet peeve of mine. I totally understand that modern engineering plastics are plenty strong, light, and inexpensive to fabricate, all good things. Some camera assemblies wouldn't even be possible without their use. Nevertheless, I have an irrational, visceral loathing when I encounter plastics in or on a camera. Foolish, yes, but there it is! As usual, I'm about a century behind the times.
My C2 cost nearly nothing, and it's truly mint; no one wants them. It's one butt-ugly pit bull of a camera, and I love its looks. Sorta like a piece of farm machinery from the Depression era.

 

[Rayt]

I was never tempted by the Mamiya TLRs due to the size and weight. The Tessar/Xenar type cameras are perfect for travel especially the Rolleicord due to the low weight. With street photography it doesn’t matter if it has a Tessar/Xenar or Planar/Xenotar as long as I can carry it walking all day.

 

[KoNickon]

I love the Mamiya TLRs -- the design and execution are brilliant, even though the cameras seem "agricultural." Seemingly bomb-proof, and the lenses are great. The interchangeability of the lenses and the close focusing capability are really useful. Keeping the image properly centered (compensating for parallax) is the downside; slows the process down. I have a Paramender but it's not for handheld shots -- and you can do handheld. Exposure compensation you have to keep an eye on -- the scale on the side of the camera gets consulted carefully.

 

[toddfd]

Harry Fleenor in Southern California is the man. He only works on Rolleis, and it takes him around six weeks to get to your camera due to the demand for his services. People send him their Rolleis from around the world. Well worth it. It's been a few years but i assume he is still doing his magic.

I will get my 2.8F back from Harry next Tuesday. Definitely not cheap, but all my research pointed to him. Took 3 months.

 

[CMur12]

I love the Mamiya TLRs -- the design and execution are brilliant, even though the cameras seem "agricultural." Seemingly bomb-proof, and the lenses are great. The interchangeability of the lenses and the close focusing capability are really useful. Keeping the image properly centered (compensating for parallax) is the downside; slows the process down. I have a Paramender but it's not for handheld shots -- and you can do handheld. Exposure compensation you have to keep an eye on -- the scale on the side of the camera gets consulted carefully.

I don't find the Paramender any more inconvenient than using MLU on a medium format/MF SLR.

I work mainly on a tripod in MF, especially for close-up work, so I don't find the Paramender inconvenient.

- Murray

 

[stephen_lumsden]

I would recommend a yashica D, preferably with a Yashinon lens. The 124g is overpriced, as is the Rollei T, had both and had problems. Alternatively get a rolleicord. The knob wind cameras are much better value. Do not get hung up about the separate shutter cocking. It becomes second nature after a while.

 

[wlewisiii]

I would recommend a yashica D, preferably with a Yashinon lens. The 124g is overpriced, as is the Rollei T, had both and had problems. Alternatively get a rolleicord. The knob wind cameras are much better value. Do not get hung up about the separate shutter cocking. It becomes second nature after a while.

Love my Rolleicord III.

I could consider getting a 'flex 2.8 _if_ I could find a _CHEAP_ & really clean one that doesn't have a meter or the the [censored] EV silliness but does have a Zeiss Planar 80mm but I don't look very hard because of that aforementioned 'cord III. It's exquisite. Every time I get a a negative from it in my hands I fall in love again... 😉

 

[Retro-Grouch]

I would recommend a yashica D, preferably with a Yashinon lens. The 124g is overpriced, as is the Rollei T, had both and had problems. Alternatively get a rolleicord. The knob wind cameras are much better value. Do not get hung up about the separate shutter cocking. It becomes second nature after a while.

Agreed. I have the D, with the Yashinon, and it actually gets used more than the Rollei 3.5. It goes to the beach, it goes backpacking, it goes to the rodeo for the afternoon and comes home covered with dust. I'd be loath to do that to the Rollei; it's too "precious". Not that I'd want to see the Yashica damaged, of course, but it is more replaceable. Results, of course, are just as good.
I had the same issue with my Leicas. There were a lot of places I just wouldn't take them. Sort of negates the point of having "the best", doesn't it?

 

[wlewisiii]

Agreed. I have the D, with the Yashinon, and it actually gets used more than the Rollei 3.5. It goes to the beach, it goes backpacking, it goes to the rodeo for the afternoon and comes home covered with dust. I'd be loath to do that to the Rollei; it's too "precious". Not that I'd want to see the Yashica damaged, of course, but it is more replaceable. Results, of course, are just as good.
I had the same issue with my Leicas. There were a lot of places I just wouldn't take them. Sort of negates the point of having "the best", doesn't it?

Never had that problem. I'd hate it if something did happen to my Leica or my Rollei or my good Nikons but as you say, why have them but leave them on the shelf?

No, every day at least one goes out the door with me no matter where I'm headed. Gotta use that good glass.

 

[KoNickon]

Agreed. I have the D, with the Yashinon, and it actually gets used more than the Rollei 3.5. It goes to the beach, it goes backpacking, it goes to the rodeo for the afternoon and comes home covered with dust. I'd be loath to do that to the Rollei; it's too "precious". Not that I'd want to see the Yashica damaged, of course, but it is more replaceable. Results, of course, are just as good.
I had the same issue with my Leicas. There were a lot of places I just wouldn't take them. Sort of negates the point of having "the best", doesn't it?

The drawback with the D is that you can inadvertently double expose a frame, or wind past an unexposed frame. You need to keep track of what you're doing. The Rolleicords (at least the V and later) prevent both happening.

 

[The Spastic Image]

I suppose this is the time for the inevitable Rollei vs. Yashica post. My $0.02: go for a Yashica, with a four-element Yashinon. I have both, and I really think the Rollei will only give you nicer finish (machined castings vs. stampings, but in places where they don't matter) and a nicer feel in the hand. The Yashica will give you a better stock screen, performance equal to a Tessar or Xenar, and enough of a savings to buy another Yashica as a backup, or pay for that CLA.
I'm glad to have my Rollei; it's an exquisite piece of photo history. But really, a Yashica will always "git 'er done".

Also, for Yashica-Mat repair, you have Mark Hama in Georgia who is the expert on these classics. Mr. Hama worked for Yashica and assembled 124G cameras in the day. A friendly gentleman.

 

[Retro-Grouch]

Never had that problem. I'd hate it if something did happen to my Leica or my Rollei or my good Nikons but as you say, why have them but leave them on the shelf?

No, every day at least one goes out the door with me no matter where I'm headed. Gotta use that good glass.

I agree about using the good glass; that's a compromise I don't like to make. But for just that reason, I'll use the Yashica without hesitation. Its Yashinon is just as good as the Tessar on the Rollei, and I actually prefer the Yashinon's color rendition. I know, blasphemy! 😉