Canon LTM Canon P vs 7s

[das]

@TenEleven , that's an incredible write-up on the models. Thanks!

I have just one quibble -- I think it would be more accurate to say that the "P" looks like the VI. 🙂, as the P was a follow-up economy version of the VI. Imho, the VI's viewfinder system overall is far better than the P. The rotating magnification VF is one of the great, ultimately unrealized concepts in rangefinder camera technology, as the VI could really have used a parallax-corrected 35mm frameline and perhaps the addition of parallax corrected 100mm / 135mm framelines for the 1.55x view. Also, imho, the VI is an overall a better platform than any of V or L series cameras. VIs are rare but with some patience can be found in affordable condition (I had to get mine overhauled as it looked and smelled like it was stored in a closet for 40 years).

 

[TenEleven]

That was a great post, @TenEleven - sums those models up really well. One correction, however:



Early Canons don't have that "goggly eye" (took me a second to understand what you meant there!) - and don't even have the dot on the shutter release to indicate shutter or film movement like the later screwmount Leicas do. The indicator only got added on the VT; anything earlier than that (II, III, IV) is lacking that feature.

Also, I'd argue it doesn't really help with film feed issues, as it is linked to the shutter advance, not the film transport. Cocking the shutter with an empty camera still causes the "goggly eye" to move.

Yeah you are right of course, I should have clarified that I meant within the four models I have listed. And yes of course, if you don't thread the film in properly then the indicator will not help you much. It would have been indeed better if it moved independently. I've amended the post.

@TenEleven , that's an incredible write-up on the models. Thanks!

I have just one quibble -- I think it would be more accurate to say that the "P" looks like the VI. 🙂, as the P was a follow-up economy version of the VI. Imho, the VI's viewfinder system overall is far better than the P. The rotating magnification VF is one of the great, ultimately unrealized concepts in rangefinder camera technology, as the VI could really have used a parallax-corrected 35mm frameline and perhaps the addition of parallax corrected 100mm / 135mm framelines for the 1.55x view. Also, imho, the VI is an overall a better platform than any of V or L series cameras. VIs are rare but with some patience can be found in affordable condition (I had to get mine overhauled as it looked and smelled like it was stored in a closet for 40 years).

You're right of course that the P is based on the VIL (or 6L as it's sometimes called) - however as with regards to the shooting platform, I think that may be personal preference.
I already pointed out that the VF/RF of the VIL is better than the P usually but still follows the van albada principle for the frame-lines which makes them... okay not fantastic.
As stated I have overhauled copies of each of the four cameras, and for RF patch contrast nothing beats the L1 it has the hardest most clearly defined outline of the four for it's RF patch - you do get a smaller more peephole-y viewfinder but that's the trade-off.

Edit: for a 35mm lens, the VIL is the clear winner though, no doubt in my mind. The 35mm frameline on the P (OT: and on the Nikon S3) feels like a bit of a joke to me. You can use it in an emergency, but it's not what I would describe as good.

To be clear I love my VIL and have shot many great "keepers" with it - but the point of this list is not to declare any one camera "the best", because I think there is no such thing.But help people find the one that suits their needs the best.

 

[aw614]

Is the VI-L's patch similar to the VL's coolish/blue patch vs the yellowish one on the L1/L2 bodies? I found the patch on the VL and L1/L2 I have both on par with each other. Found no issues focusing wide open with the CV 50mm 1.5

I bought a poor condition VL that snapped its shutter curtain ribbons a month after I got it (ebay GAS lol). Not sure what I am going to do with it...as I have an L1 and L2 that are both in good shape, but sort of want some sort of frankenstein model, just not sure who would be willing to take on such a project.

 

[TenEleven]

To my eye it looks to be a warm yellow-ish however the tint is a lot less intense than on the earlier Lx models. The P and 7 is a similar soft yellowish tone too.
The VLx models really are the odd guys out with their silver patches.

 

[wlewisiii]

Personally I like the yellowish cast but it is a real preference kind of thing.

 

[maaca]

I own and use both Canon P and 7. My recommendation: Choose the lens first, then the camera. For me, P works well with smaller lenses, 7 with larger and heavier ones.

 

[wrs1145]

I've got an L1 and I glued on the metal viewfinder a thick rubber O ring onto the back and it works just fine.

 

[Lesely61]

I'll never get rid of my P.
Eight years ago I had it in my back pack while heading across town on the mountain bike and about ten minutes into the ride the bikes seat clamp gave way. I was pitched backwards and hit the ground right at the spot where the P was in my back pack. I was expecting it to be a right-off after taking the impact but to my amazement the damn thing had only a small dent in the upper deck and what is more it was Still focusing accuratly. I took in in to the shop and I was told that beyond a good CLA and adjustment for the lower speeds(which I seldom use), the P was performing as well as could be expected.
That Canon P is Tough,...

 

[raid]

I went for a basic model, so I got the P. Then I bought two additional P cameras.
I traded the VIL plus cash for a Standard Leica.

 

[Steve Goldstein]

Just a note for the weight-conscious...

My Canon P body weighs 577 grams, while my Canon 7 body weighs 624 grams, and my L2 body weighs 544 grams.

 

[Sanug]

I own the 7s and I am very, very happy with it. Great beautiful and perfectly working camera, it is a joy to use. I would not like to need an external light meter. And the 35mm framelines are visible, with the Canon P you may need a separate viewfinder for 35mm.



Canon 7s with Jupiter-9. I like the Jupiter-9 and Jupiter-12 very much, although I own a Canon 1.8/50 as well.

 

[Bingley]

I have had both the P and the 7, and now have a VI-L and an SBIV2. I don’t have much to add to the excellent posts by das and TenEleven, with which I largely agree. I didn’t see anyone mention this w/r/t the P, however: if you wear glasses (like I do), you will find the 35mm framelines in the VF very difficult to see, as they’re way out on the edge of the VF (the downside of a 1:1 VF). If you use a 50mm lens primarily, then this isn’t a problem, and the 50mm framelines in the P are quite wonderful. I use both 35mm and 50mm lenses, so being able to select a VF magnification on the VI-L is a better solution for me. One other thing: the VI-L (and the SBIV2) allow you to select a higher magnification, which approximates a 100mm lens, and really aids in fine focusing. This can be very useful for landscape and portrait photos.

That said, they’re all nice cameras, each w/ its pluses and minuses. They’re all very well built, robust cameras. Not as smooth as their Leica counterparts perhaps but significantly less expensive.

 

[wrs1145]

Based on Matt Osbourne's recommendation, I bought an Canon L3 off eBay and am very happy w/ it. I also have an Model P and a L1. I now have a complete set of rangefinders to last me for the rest of my life.