Old, cheap manual 50mm to pair to my Nikon Zf: Nikon, Canon..

[CandidChronicles]

I'm looking into manual 50mm lenses, just to complete my current setup of (Voigtländer) 28mm, and 35mmon my Nikon Zf.

I already have a Nikon AIS 50mm 1.4, which I adapted, but the result is too bulky. To my knowledge, the only small adapters are the Leica ones.
I love Voigtländer Leica M lenses for their cost/quality ratio, their compactness, and the focus tab, which comes in handy, but I'm curious what else it's out there.

After some searching, I got curious about the Canon 50mm f1.4 LTM and the Nikkor H.C HC 50mm f/2 L39.
The price range seems okay for my budget, more or less around $200.

It seems they're both good choices, although I couldn't find much info about their respective sizes and the focus throw.

Any thoughts on those lenses? Or is there something better I should be considering?

Thanks for any insight.

 

[sojournerphoto]

The Z mount has a very short flange distance - only 16mm - so all adapters are longer than on mirrorless with longer flange distances. Given shorter adapters are, imho, nicer in use, probably an M or LTM mount lens might be a good plan.

The TTArtisan 50mm f1.4 ASPH is also well worth a look. Available in Z mount for $214 direct

TTArtisan 50mm F1.4 ASPH. Full Frame-Full Frame Lenses-TTArtisan Official Website

Or, Nikon 50/1.8 Series E or a Nikkor 50/2?

I suspect the TTA is a good call here, but not old.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

The Canon 50/1.4 is a Planar, 6 element in 4 groups. Finding a clean one can take some tome: the glass used can react badly to lubricants used during some part of the production. The same is true of many of the Canon lenses: be wary of coating damage and etched glass on the surface behind the aperture. Find a good one- worth waiting for. The Nikkor-5cm F2 will focus to 18", easy to do on the Zf.

Album of Canon 50/1.4 in LTM on the Leica.

Canon 50 F1.4 in LTM

Canon 50 F1.4 in LTM album hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

The Nikkor 5cm F2 on the Leica,

Nikkor 5cm F2 LTM, Late Version

Nikkor 5cm F2 LTM, Late Version album hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

I have MANY adapters to use classic lenses on my Z-Mount camera.



Adapters to use LTM and M-Mount lenses are short compared with the F-mount adapter. The LTM lenses make for a compact kit. I have a Jupiter-3 5cm F1.5 on my Z5 now.
The Canon 50/0.95 is a bit bigger...

 

[wlewisiii]

I have both of them, in glorious condition, and consider them easily the equal of anything made by Leica at that time.

If I were in your spot without any of my 50's I'd look for any of these, in alpha order because they're all good:

1) Canon 50/1.4
2) Canon 50/1.8 - easier to find a clean one & arguably sharper.
3) Chiyoko (now known as Minolta 😉 ) Super Rokkor 50/2 Less well known but lovely lens, wonderful wide open.
4) Leica Summitar 50/2 - I always liked it better than the Summicron. Heresy, I know. Another secret? The Chiyoko does the same thing better & cheaper 😉
5) Nikkor 50/2 - one of the classic sonnars. Cheaper & easier to find in Leica mount than the 50/1.4.
6) Voitlander/Cosina 50/1.5 Nokton Asp in LTM (first version is the one I have). May be too big for your tastes & is a very modern lens. OTOH, it is fantastic.

Have fun!

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Canon 50/1.8 v2 (Black), clean glass.

Canon 50mm F1.8 v2, Marine Museum

Canon 50mm F1.8 v2, Marine Museum album hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

Picked up for $50 on Ebay. This is an early one, seems to have missed out on the Caustic Lubricant.

Minolta 5cm F2 in LTM- bigger than the Canon 50/1.8 and Nikkor 5cm F2.

Minolta Chiyoko 5cm F2: Early

Very early Minolta 5cm F2 lens- 7 elements in 4 groups (counting the two air-spaced doublets as a group).

ibb.co

Canon 50mm F1.5, also a Sonnar. Also be wary of damage to glass behind aperture. This does not happen as often as the 50/1.4 and 50/1.8 v2. Prices have dropped to within your range, used to cost as much as the Nikkor 5cm F1.4 in LTM.

Canon 50 F1.5

Canon 50 F1.5 album hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I had many 50ies. Crons and less. MC Helios-81N 50mm f/2.0 lens gave a ride to most if the Crons...
You could add tab collar on it. Or file down spikes and add focus tab.

 

[raid]

Both lenses are first class if found in clean condition. I prefer classic lenses to modern lenses. It is a personal preference.
The Canon 50/1.5 is an undervalued gem.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

It seems they're both good choices, although I couldn't find much info about their respective sizes and the focus throw.

Set your browser search engine to Google. Select text "Canon 50 1.4 LTM", do right mouse button click, select Search Google for "Canon 50 1.4".
On return page select images instead of all:

Canon 50mm f1.4 LTM - Google Search

For lens details, like focus throw, open ebay, search for lens. Open matching listings, observe.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Feel free to ask any questions on this forum.

A comparison of the M-Mount to Z-Mount adapter and the F-Mount to M-Mount adapter. The 50/1.8 Nikkor "Pancake" and series E lens would sit on the much longer tube.
The Nikkor 5cm F2 uses 40.5mm filters, the Canon uses 48mm filters. 300degree Focus throw on the Nikkor gets you to 1.5ft. ~180 degree throw of the Canon gets you to 3ft.
The Canon lives in a Nikon Bubble. I bought El-Nikkor enlarging lenses for less than what the 39mm Bubble Case goes for these days. The Nikkor is in a Leather Leica lens case. Made it a little harder to find. I have the 5cm F1.5 and 5cm F1.4 Nikkors in Bubbles.

 

[dourbalistar]

I have used both lenses, and between the Canon 50mm f/1.4 LTM and the Nikkor-H.C 5cm f/2 LTM, the Nikkor has the shorter focus throw from infinity to minimum (rangefinder-coupled) focus distance. About 180 degrees for the Canon versus around 60 degrees for the Nikkor. However, as @Sonnar Brian mentioned, the Nikkor can focus down to 1.5 feet. Turn past a small detente, about 240 degrees from infinity to reach 1.5 feet.

The Canon is a larger lens with a somewhat unusual 48mm filter thread, but is a full stop faster at f/1.4. In any case, if you are looking for image samples, there are two long threads here on the forum with samples on film and digital.

Canon 50mm f/1.4 LTM:

Canon LTM - Pics with Canon 50mm f/1.4 LTM, please !

Hello, I noticed that this forum makes the Canon or Serenar 50mm f/1.5 LTM price increase. The Sonnar formula is a great thing, I know. That is probably why the Canon or Serenar 50mm f/1.8 LTM often cost more than... the Canon 50mm f/1.4 LTM, double-Gauss formula. I've used the Canon 50mm...

rangefinderforum.com

Nikkor-H.C 5cm f/2 LTM:

Nikkor LTM - Nikkor HC 50mm F2... Wow, I am impressed

So, my deal-hunting finally paid off on the auction site and I found a nice Nikkor HC. This lens has exactly the right OOF areas that I am looking for and has absolutely wonderful ergonomics. I took the following picture with my Bessa R2 a 1/500th of a second wide open with the Nikkor lens...

rangefinderforum.com

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I went through my Canon lenses- make a point to inspect for Fog. The 50/1.4 and 50/1.8 V2 were clean.
The 50/2.8 and two 100mm F3.5 lenses had fogged up Again. These three need cleaning about every 1~2 years.

About a 10 minute job to open and clean each, including the 50/1.8 and 50/1.4 - when needed.

50/2.8


100/3.5

I've had more Canon lenses fog up like this than any other manufacturer that I own. My Leica Summarit 5cm F1.5 bought 20 years ago needed cleaning again about 2 years ago. So- about once every 15 years.

 

[CandidChronicles]

Thank you all for the responses!

From what I'm understanding, I think I'll go with the Nikkor H.C HC 50mm f/2 L39.
It seems both Canon and Nikkor, as well as the other lenses mentioned here, are all good choices.

The shorter focus throw on the Nikon could be handy for my Street Photography. Also, the potential issue of ending up with a lens that needs cleaning (Canon) is steering my decision toward the Nikkor.

I also want to particularly thank @Sonnar Brian for all the pics, and links shared here, that's been really helpful 🙏

@wlewisiii thanks for posting that list. I did know Rokkor lenses (I own the 50 1.4 which I love), but I wasn't aware of the Chiyoko one.

 

[DownUnder]

I don't see the purpose of owning a Nikon Z and putting Canon lenses on it. Even the Canon 'standard' 50, as good as this lens is.

To me this is almost akin to buying a top range Leica M and putting Hanimex or Tokina lenses on it. (Late era Visitors, well, maybe.) Note that I wrote "almost". This is my disclaimer and is 100% aimed at keeping my head firmly set on my neck and shoulders.

So many good Nikkor lenses available on the secondhand market. D and G primes.

Someone suggested the 50/1.8 Nikon Series E. In my past experience and from all I've read, that lens (from the '80s) was rated as Just Okay but not up to the standard of the 50/1.4 or even the 50/2.0 of the time. The Series E lenses were an el cheapo range aimed at a consumer market who used mostly Kodacolor and were not too demanding or for that matter discerning.

I've used all those early Es in my time. The 28/2.8 E I had sagged all the images in the corners and curved the backgrounds like crazy. It was by no means as good as even the earlier F or AI/AIS Nikkors. The 50/1.8 was (as I've already written) Just Okay. I got somewhat better results from the 100/2.8. In 2002 I offloaded all my Series Es and went over to the Nikon primes of that era, the Ds. Many of the older D lenses are now available at reasonable prices on the used market, and they have truly excellent optics.

As for the Voitlanders, in their case I will make an exception to my Nikons Only 'principle'. Also the Cosinas made for the SLR and DSLR brands. They all seem outstandingly good for their prices.

So yes, there are exceptions to everything. A chacun son gout, as the French say. (In France, "gout" does not mean the well-known medical condition from too much Bonne Vivante aka Dolce Vita...)

 

[CandidChronicles]

Thanks for your insights, @DownUnder

The reason why I'm looking for old manual lenses is that I shoot manual all the time, so I don't need AF lenses.

All the manual lenses I'm using on the Zf are Voigtländer, but since I'm not too much into 50mm at the moment, for now, I'd just try a 50mm out of curiosity within a contained budget.

To me, aesthetically and ergonomically, it makes more sense to have a vintage lens on the Zf (possibly with focus tab) than an AF Nikon.

As for pairing a manual lens to the Zf I think it still makes sense, thanks to the Zf subject detection which works great even with manual lenses.
Canon was just one of the lenses that caught my curiosity, but I decided to go with the Nikkor H.C HC 50mm f/2 L39.

I have to admit that I have a weakness for vintage lenses. Even though I might not be using them all the time, I love owning them, and I go back to them from time to time. Despite I started late with photography, and my first camera was a DSLR, I used mainly manual lenses: OM, Nikkor, Helios, and so on.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

First lens I used on the Z5.



Wide-open, moving subject. 1/100th, ISO 6400.
I hear Nikon also finally came out with a Manual Focus F0.95 lens. If I can get it for $200, like I did the Canon- I'll get one.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Canon 50/0.95 wide-open, subject is standing still.
What surprised me- is how much sharper this lens is on The Z5 than on film. The depth of the formed image on film is less than the thickness of the emulsion. That's my theory, sticking to it. I did check emulsion thickness of color film and ran the numbers.

 

[DownUnder]

Thanks for your insights, @DownUnder

The reason why I'm looking for old manual lenses is that I shoot manual all the time, so I don't need AF lenses.

All the manual lenses I'm using on the Zf are Voigtländer, but since I'm not too much into 50mm at the moment, for now, I'd just try a 50mm out of curiosity within a contained budget.

To me, aesthetically and ergonomically, it makes more sense to have a vintage lens on the Zf (possibly with focus tab) than an AF Nikon.

As for pairing a manual lens to the Zf I think it still makes sense, thanks to the Zf subject detection which works great even with manual lenseS.
Canon was just one of the lenses that caught my curiosity, but I decided to go with the Nikkor H.C HC 50mm f/2 L39.

I have to admit that I have a weakness for vintage lenses. Even though I might not be using them all the time, I love owning them, and I go back to them from time to time. Despite I started late with photography, and my first camera was a DSLR, I used mainly manual lenses: OM, Nikkor, Helios, and so on.

That's okay. I will now confess to All And Sundry (how are you today, Sundry?) that I now have an adapter for Leitz LTM lenses to my Nikon DSLRs - I believe it's a Metabones altho' I don't have it readily to hand so I cannot check this - and I now and then I use either my Elmar 50/3.5 or my collapsible Summicron 50/2.0 on a D800.

This combo does give me some odd colors and occasional artifacts I can't quite put a name to. But on the whole the images are fine.

More French now. Plus ca change...

 

[Benjamin Marks]

I have to admit that I have a weakness for vintage lenses. Even though I might not be using them all the time, I love owning them, and I go back to them from time to time. Despite I started late with photography, and my first camera was a DSLR, I used mainly manual lenses: OM, Nikkor, Helios, and so on.

I hear you on the vintage lenses. 😉 What tripped me up was the use of the word "inexpensive" and "vintage" in the same prompt. In general, I like older lenses, but you also get what you pay for. Posts #27 and #28 of this thread: Nikon Z8 w/Adapted Lenses (Leica M+R, Pentax, Konica etc.) show what a couple of 50's will do on a Z8. The Helios is a Contax-style lens and can be had quite inexpensively, but you need a Contax-to-Leica or NikonRF-to-Leica adapter AND a Leica to Z adapter (or a Contax RF-Mount, Internal or External Bayonet Lens to Nikon Z-Mount Camera - Yikes! (price)) and either way you are shelling out enough money to get you out of what I consider "inexpensive."

No, the main reason to do it would be to keep your overall package compact, and that means sticking with M or LTM lenses. Used versions of the C/V 50's seem to be commanding a bit of a premium at the moment, if eBay listings are any clue. They list for more than, say a Leica 5 CM f:3.5 lens or a similar Canon Serenar, which is a bit of a surprise.

Overall, I think you have chosen a sensible alternative in the Nikkor H.C HC 50mm f/2 L39. If you can keep the front element out of the sun or other direct light sources, you will have fun, I think!

I know this ship has sailed, but I think that the Pentax M (K-mount) and Pentax Takumar screw mount lenses are some of the best values in photography now. Examples can be found for for well under US$100 and the optics are great. Even if they are a bit more compact than their Nikon counterparts, however, they still need a honkin' extenstion tube to get the lens to flange distance right on Nikon Z cameras. I play around with them on the Z8, but I get that the resulting size is not what you want in your Zf walkabout kit. Konica AR lenses are also a smokin' hot buy right now, but same issue on size.

 

[CandidChronicles]

I hear you on the vintage lenses. 😉 What tripped me up was the use of the word "inexpensive" and "vintage" in the same prompt. In general, I like older lenses, but you also get what you pay for. Posts #27 and #28 of this thread: Nikon Z8 w/Adapted Lenses (Leica M+R, Pentax, Konica etc.) show what a couple of 50's will do on a Z8. The Helios is a Contax-style lens and can be had quite inexpensively, but you need a Contax-to-Leica or NikonRF-to-Leica adapter AND a Leica to Z adapter (or a Contax RF-Mount, Internal or External Bayonet Lens to Nikon Z-Mount Camera - Yikes! (price)) and either way you are shelling out enough money to get you out of what I consider "inexpensive."

No, the main reason to do it would be to keep your overall package compact, and that means sticking with M or LTM lenses. Used versions of the C/V 50's seem to be commanding a bit of a premium at the moment, if eBay listings are any clue. They list for more than, say a Leica 5 CM f:3.5 lens or a similar Canon Serenar, which is a bit of a surprise.

Overall, I think you have chosen a sensible alternative in the Nikkor H.C HC 50mm f/2 L39. If you can keep the front element out of the sun or other direct light sources, you will have fun, I think!

I know this ship has sailed, but I think that the Pentax M (K-mount) and Pentax Takumar screw mount lenses are some of the best values in photography now. Examples can be found for for well under US$100 and the optics are great. Even if they are a bit more compact than their Nikon counterparts, however, they still need a honkin' extenstion tube to get the lens to flange distance right on Nikon Z cameras. I play around with them on the Z8, but I get that the resulting size is not what you want in your Zf walkabout kit. Konica AR lenses are also a smokin' hot buy right now, but same issue on size.

Thanks for pointing out to that thread, Benjamin, I'll take a look.
Perhaps my choice of words wasn't the best, I see now that by saying cheap it can lead to different interpretation.

As for the options you mentioned, as you rightly suggested, some of those wouldn't fit in my idea of compactness. I know for instance that the Super Takumar is a great lens, but indeed the adapter is not ideal. If I had to go any of the other routes than the Leica mount options, I would probably simply use my Nikon AI-S 50 1.4, or my Rokkor 1.4, two lenses that I appreciated when I used them in the past.

And yes, the eBay trends right now great, but I'm in no rush, so I'll keep looking.

 

[CandidChronicles]

Just a quick update on my Nikkor search. Considering right now the price for these lenses is trending higher than expected (and most of the time for copies in bad shape) I'm actually going to wait for the new CV Color-Skopar 50mm 2.2, which is supposed to be released in July.

Everything on that lens seems to fit my needs, and it would be a perfect companion to the other CV lenses I already own.
I only hope the vignetting is not as bad as it appears from the first pictures samples available from Cosina.

I want to thank you all again for all the information, which I will refer back to in case I might still want to buy a Nikkor (or Canon) in the future.