Mechanical XPAN, is it possible?

[boojum]

In actuality a mechanical Xpan has nothing to do with film/digital. It's a beautifully designed if very specific camera. The kicker is that because of the electronics involved, it could end up being a $ 5,000 brick. I have no doubt that if we were back in the '80s say, when mechanical cameras were being built.....several companies could have built it. If you could build a Fuji 617 or a Linhof Technorama.... why not an Xpan? It's just that no one is building those kind of cameras any more.

This thread started about building a mechanical Xpan from something else. This has meant analog. Various film bodies have been deconstructed and have had new noses grafted onto them. The nature of the project seems to point it at analog. Digitally this problem was solved with the first digital editor.

The 'oxygen' (no longer available) is a cool idea. I always prefer medium format film, but since 220 is dead, there's no doubt 35 is more convenient for panoramics. As i see it, the attractive selling point of the Xpan were: a built-in light meter, the fact that it could do single frame or panoramics, and had 3 high quality interchangeable lenses. So you have a svelte camera you could take as an only camera on a trip. Quite a bit different than a 617.... Having said that, I'd be a sucker for a Fuji G-W 680 IV with 3 interchangeable lenses.

I have been a 35mm guy since around '53 or ;43. My first was the Voigtlaender Vito II which you see alongside my posts. I bought 100' or 200' rolls of Tri-X and loaded and developed my own crap. 8 - 10 hours in rooms dimly lit with red lights were my Saturdays. I learned from that. I learned I was not very good. Repititio, repititio, repititio. Practice can improve if it is possble. The jury is out.

I have always had a closet lust for medium format, the Swedish one. I remember it from back in the Vito II days. The lust lingered and never went away. When the X2D came out I sold the wife, kids, grandchildren into slavery and both kidneys and bought one with the XCD55V. It shoots XPan natively. And any Sonnars I have cover the 44 x 33 sensor so they work, too. I have yet to test any 35mm format wide-angles.

So I have beaten the mechanical hack of the XPan but I must have daily dialysis and keep a constant lookout for Interpol. ;o)

 

[shawn]

The 'oxygen' (no longer available) is a cool idea. I always prefer medium format film, but since 220 is dead, there's no doubt 35 is more convenient for panoramics. As i see it, the attractive selling point of the Xpan were: a built-in light meter, the fact that it could do single frame or panoramics, and had 3 high quality interchangeable lenses. So you have a svelte camera you could take as an only camera on a trip. Quite a bit different than a 617.... Having said that, I'd be a sucker for a Fuji G-W 680 IV with 3 interchangeable lenses.

I'd say there is no doubt digital is more convenient for panoramics. You have built in light meter, more options than just single frame or panoramic (ex: 3:2.4:3, 16:9. 1:1, 65:23, 2:1 in my S1R) and the equivalent of interchangeable backs (different ISOs, B&W or color) without having to carry interchangeable backs.

Having said that I still also shoot film panoramics too as I enjoy the process and results I get from them as well.

Aren't you basically describing a G690?

 

[shawn]

I have always had a closet lust for medium format, the Swedish one. I remember it from back in the Vito II days. The lust lingered and never went away. When the X2D came out I sold the wife, kids, grandchildren into slavery and both kidneys and bought one with the XCD55V. It shoots XPan natively. And any Sonnars I have cover the 44 x 33 sensor so they work, too. I have yet to test any 35mm format wide-angles.

Things like the Nikon 24mm f2.8 will work in panoramic format but not full frame. That is a nice lens on digital MF. The Voigtlander 21mm f3.5 will cover 65:24 and 1x1 and that lens is basically the xPan with the 45mm in 65:24 and the equivalent of the SWC in 1:1. It was a very fun walkaround lens on my GFX50 switching between those two aspect ratios.

The old Nikon PC 28mm and 35mm will cover full frame and even let you shift a bit too.

 

[Deleted member 65559]

I'd say there is no doubt digital is more convenient for panoramics. You have built in light meter, more options than just single frame or panoramic (ex: 3:2.4:3, 16:9. 1:1, 65:23, 2:1 in my S1R) and the equivalent of interchangeable backs (different ISOs, B&W or color) without having to carry interchangeable backs.

Having said that I still also shoot film panoramics too as I enjoy the process and results I get from them as well.

Aren't you basically describing a G690?

Well perhaps but that camera is long in the tooth (I had one).... but i would bite for a modern version.
Let's face it you can crop any film size to panoramic. I've used 120/4x5/5x7/4x10/8x10.... and you could produce a panoramic print from any of them.

 

[shawn]

Long in the tooth but still extremely capable and available for a song (relatively) at this point.

Yes, you can crop any film or digital to panoramic but I find it better to compose if I see the aspect ratio while shooting. When I shot panoramic without built in panoramic ARs I was more sloppy with my framing since I knew I was just going to be cropping in post.

 

[boojum]

Here's a so-so shot of a pasture of a farm close to the Columbia River between Portland and Astoria. The beauty is being able to switch formats in seconds. This pic is a farm near the Columbia River about halfway from Portland to Astoria. It is a nice scene but the light is off. Maybe another day. It is sweet to be able to pull up this format along with the others.

B0001317 by West Phalia, on Flickr​

 

[Retro-Grouch]

This thread started about building a mechanical Xpan from something else. This has meant analog. Various film bodies have been deconstructed and have had new noses grafted onto them. The nature of the project seems to point it at analog. Digitally this problem was solved with the first digital editor.


I have been a 35mm guy since around '53 or ;43. My first was the Voigtlaender Vito II which you see alongside my posts. I ought 100' or 200' rolls of Tri-X and loaded and developed my own crap. 8 - 10 hours in rooms dimly lit with red lights were my Saturdays. I learned from that. I learned I was not very good. Repititio, repititio, repititio. Practice can improve if it is possble. The jury is out.

I have always had a closet lust for medium format, the Swedish one. I remember it from back in the Vito II days. The lust lingered and never went away. When the X2D came out I sold the wife, kids, grandchildren into slavery and both kidneys and bought one with the XCD55V. It shoots XPan natively. And any Sonnars I have cover the 44 x 33 sensor so they work, too. I have yet to test any 35mm format wide-angles.

So I have beaten the mechanical hack of the XPan but I must have daily dialysis and keep a constant lookout for Interpol. ;o)

Sounds like you got a good deal, but we don't all have your resources; I don't have kids or grandchildren, and my partner's too old to sell for anything but rendering down at the glue factory. And I doubt that anyone would want my 72-year-old kidneys. Life is so unfair!

 

[OlivierAOP]

Here's my mechanical Xpan. Canon 7 body hacked to 63mm frame. Modded for continuous advance, two strokes needed via stop for correct spacing. Fuji 45mm f5.6 lens (from GS645W) on Kodak/Compur shutter and recycled helicoid. RF modified to couple the lens.

Canon 7 Panoramic mod by Olivier, on Flickr

Canon 7 pano mod by Olivier, on Flickr

 

[Zuiko-logist]

Here's my mechanical Xpan. Canon 7 body hacked to 63mm frame. Modded for continuous advance, two strokes needed via stop for correct spacing. Fuji 45mm f5.6 lens (from GS645W) on Kodak/Compur shutter and recycled helicoid. RF modified to couple the lens.

Canon 7 Panoramic mod by Olivier, on Flickr

Canon 7 pano mod by Olivier, on Flickr

Wow!

 

[Godfrey]

Long in the tooth but still extremely capable and available for a song (relatively) at this point.

Yes, you can crop any film or digital to panoramic but I find it better to compose if I see the aspect ratio while shooting. When I shot panoramic without built in panoramic ARs I was more sloppy with my framing since I knew I was just going to be cropping in post.

I think I'll experiment with Minox 8x11 panoramic photos. I think if I carry the tripod with the degree'd head and use a six frame sequence work flow (66x8mm effective format), I can get some interesting results.

I'll let you know how it goes. 😉

G

 

[shawn]

I think I'll experiment with Minox 8x11 panoramic photos. I think if I carry the tripod with the degree'd head and use a six frame sequence work flow (66x8mm effective format), I can get some interesting results.

I'll let you know how it goes. 😉

G

You just need to make a Minox version of this....

 

[filmtwit]

INteresting 3d Printed Camera Large Format Medium Photography

 

[shawn]

3d printing is fantastic for building your own cameras.

There are lots of interesting options out there. Just make sure there is some manor of adjusting the camera for your specific lens. Some just send the same cone based on the specc'd flange focal length. I've built at least 50 cameras for the Super Angulon 90mm f8 and they are *not* all the same. I've see maybe +/- 2mm difference between them. That is the difference between sharp images and not sharp on a scale focused camera.

 

[Godfrey]

You just need to make a Minox version of this....

Hmm. Well, I have 9 Minox 8x11 cameras to work with ... 😉

 

[Deleted member 65559]

Long in the tooth but still extremely capable and available for a song (relatively) at this point.

Yes, you can crop any film or digital to panoramic but I find it better to compose if I see the aspect ratio while shooting. When I shot panoramic without built in panoramic ARs I was more sloppy with my framing since I knew I was just going to be cropping in post.

Easy enough to sketch the format on mylar or similar and place it over the groundglass on bigger format cameras.

 

[Jonathan R]

Here's my mechanical Xpan. Canon 7 body hacked to 63mm frame. Modded for continuous advance, two strokes needed via stop for correct spacing. Fuji 45mm f5.6 lens (from GS645W) on Kodak/Compur shutter and recycled helicoid. RF modified to couple the lens.

Canon 7 Panoramic mod by Olivier, on Flickr

Canon 7 pano mod by Olivier, on Flickr

That’s very impressive! Would you be willing to share more details?

 

[OlivierAOP]

That’s very impressive! Would you be willing to share more details?

Happy to answer any questions you may have!

 

[Jonathan R]

Happy to answer any questions you may have!

Thanks! Erm, can we start with ‘How did you do it?’ Honestly, I’m pretty handy, but contemplating this I feel out of my depth. I’d really like to make one, though.

 

[OlivierAOP]

Well it starts with a Canon 7 body, a GS645W (lens), a Kodak Retina I (shutter) and Hoya 28mm lens (helicoid).

Remove the focal plane shutter and other bits and hacksaw the film gate. Plug all holes; without the shutter light leaks are an issue. Transfer the lens to the mechanical shutter and check the approximate back focus. Dismantle the donor lens and fit the lens/shutter via 3D-printed parts. Body and donor lens needed machining on a lathe to make everything fit and it took a few tries to get the lens at the right distance for infinity focus (checked via pseudo auto-collimator). Let's just say 0.5mm is a LOT for a wide lens.

For the RF I replaced the arm for the cam follower with slightly shorter, 3D-printed one (some math involved), and screwed a cam of sort (also 3D-printed) on the back of the lens to contact the cam follower. For the film advance, by chance I found that by raising slightly the plate which is actuated by the rewind toggle (under the bottom plate) it would allow for continuous winding. So I bolted a stop for the half pano frame.

 

[Jonathan R]

Ah, that’s really helpful, many thanks. Unfortunately you mention two technologiesI don’t have: a lathe, and a 3D printer. I’m sure I could learn the skills (eventually), but I don’t have the kit.

But I am extremely impressed by what you’ve done.