Videos Cams : want One Your suggestions please

[helen.HH]

my Thoughts have changed now

still in visual mode
the mix of photos
& vid clips
challenging
questioning , consuming,
watching
human Desire, Gender,
fallacy & cliches

 

[Archiver]

All right! Looks like fun! To create a sense of movement in a static object/scene, may I suggest the following:

- camera movement - can be subtle, can be overt - weigh the camera with something heavy like a monopod to give it some stability
- background movement - like clouds moving in a window, or curtains moving in the breeze
- zoom in processing - make the scene slowly zoom in or out using editing software
- moving lighting - darken the room and use the light from your phone or a diffused flashlight to pass over the mannequin
- moving object - place something that moves near/beside the mannequin, or in foreground, like a ticking clock, a metronome, a waving Chinese cat, a lava lamp
- if you have access to a lava lamp, you can use that for moving lighting as well

 

[Nitroplait]

Sony fx30 catches my eye
not too big, not too small

Many of the cine-focused mirrorless cameras expects some additional add-ons to become fully operational as video cameras - it may be an articulated screen, a handle/cage, preamps for real microphones or external sound recording etc.

It is worth emphasizing that movies are really 51% sound and 49% image.
Reflect for a moment: Isn’t it much easier to enjoy a film with good sound and less than perfect/“experimetal” images than sitting through the most beautiful pictures accompanied by awful sound?

Even if you don’t agree; still photographers tends to forget the importance of sound.

The easiest and most convenient video cameras, aside from a smartphone, that comfortably operates without loads of add-ons, is a “good old” camcorder.
Like with cameras, smartphones have cannibalised the lower end of the camcorder segment, but one can’t go wrong with a Sony or Panasonic camcorder of good quality - they are still very relevant.
Depending on model, it may still be necessary to get a XLR preamp unit or an external recorder (or both) and the necessary microphones that fits the purpose of the project.
But, a camcorder is usually self contained when it comes to ergonomics like articulated screen, handling, focusing, zooming etc. They are after all dedicated tools.

Other worthwhile considerations would be the editing process, format ambitions etc.
For example, full HD recorded uncompressed and properly color graded footage may look vastly better than a compressed 4K recording. An old cheap high-end camera that maxes out at full HD may not be the worst choice.

Editing software and required computer power will also be a part of this equation.

I can’t give any current camcorder model recommendations. The brands mentioned are generally good. The project requirements would define the choice.

If I were to buy a mirrorless with intentions of video production, I would choose the Panasonic Lumix GH(x) model that most closely matches the requirements of the project.
The m4/3 sensor size resembles the 35mm FILM frame size more closely than a 24x36 sensor.

 

[joe bosak]

Have a look at the Canon XC10 - a camcorder with manual zoom lenses and an articulated screen (with loupe if you want), looks like a bridge camera. As I am hardly a videographer I cannot wax lyrical about how it compares etc, but for me - I hate using phones for video or stills, my still cameras tend not be set up for video and I just wanted something that shot good video and "just worked" but had some bells and whistles I could fiddle with as I found the time or had the inclination.

 

[Luke_Miller]

I decided to venture into video at a time when the two options were video capable DSLRs and dedicated video cameras. I went with the dedicated video cameras for their additional capability as well as making me learn the "language" of video. Things like shutter angle and gain. Nowadays mirrorless cameras are very capable in a video role and that is what I use most of the time. The one attribute they lack that I find invaluable is a built-in neutral density filter.

 

[Archiver]

@helen.HH

Another Sony FX30 video, this time with the Viltrox 33mm f1.4



One good thing about the FX30's aps-c sensor is that the lenses are often smaller. Sigma make lenses for Sony E mount like the 30mm f1.4 and 16mm f1.4 which are inexpensive on the secondhand market and deliver excellent image quality, not to mention being a lot smaller than their full frame counterparts.

 

[shawn]

@Archiver I typically use a FZ1000 II for sports (fencing/cross country/track) but am curious about your thoughts between a S1R and the fp L? I also have a S1 but it is IR converted. I use Final Cut Pro so relative ease of use with that is helpful as I am looking to do more with what I already have compared to starting with all new software/hardware.

From what I've read the 5k mode on the S1R is quite good.

The fp L has an enormous range of options including 12bit CinemaRaw DNG but I don't think FCP can work with it.

Other differences:
S1R stabilization and EVF
fp L ease of use with external SSD (DPL fp Mate SSD rack). I have the 24-105 and 70-200 which gives me stabilization on the fp L.

Which body would you recommend focusing on for exploring/learning all the video features?

Thanks!

 

[splitimageview]

Nowadays mirrorless cameras are very capable in a video role and that is what I use most of the time. The one attribute they lack that I find invaluable is a built-in neutral density filter.

The little and quite capable Sony ZV-1 has a built-in ND.

 

[shawn]

If you are shooting with adapted lenses there are adapters with built in ND filters. Panasonic apparently patented a camera with built in ND filters so maybe a future mirrorless will have them too.

 

[JeffS7444]

I wonder how large a crew was needed to produce that music video? Would guess it wasn't much different from a movie production in that regard. A lifetime ago, I used to work at three different television stations.

Here's a YT channel I follow (I have a thing about food), and the only one in which gear is mentioned in such detail. Seems to be mostly a one-woman creation, with additional camera work provided by her partner "Mr. Beard". Have been impressed by production quality in a variety of situations, with what appears to be minimal gear:

 

[Archiver]

I wonder how large a crew was needed to produce that music video? Would guess it wasn't much different from a movie production in that regard. A lifetime ago, I used to work at three different television stations.

It needed a fairly large crew. Go here and look at 2.26 for the credits. It's more than the average person might think.

Here's a YT channel I follow (I have a thing about food), and the only one in which gear is mentioned in such detail. Seems to be mostly a one-woman creation, with additional camera work provided by her partner "Mr. Beard". Have been impressed by production quality in a variety of situations, with what appears to be minimal gear:

You'd be surprised how little gear is needed to make high quality productions, as long as the creators know what they are doing. Danny Gevirtz made this with one camera, one lens, sound gear and a gimbal. It would look right at home on a streaming service like Netflix. Bear in mind that Danny clearly understands composition and light, rhythm in editing, sound design and music.

 

[Archiver]

@Archiver I typically use a FZ1000 II for sports (fencing/cross country/track) but am curious about your thoughts between a S1R and the fp L? I also have a S1 but it is IR converted. I use Final Cut Pro so relative ease of use with that is helpful as I am looking to do more with what I already have compared to starting with all new software/hardware.

From what I've read the 5k mode on the S1R is quite good.

The fp L has an enormous range of options including 12bit CinemaRaw DNG but I don't think FCP can work with it.

From what I understand, FCP supports CinemaDNG but I don't use FCP, so I couldn't tell you any specifics.

Other differences:
S1R stabilization and EVF
fp L ease of use with external SSD (DPL fp Mate SSD rack). I have the 24-105 and 70-200 which gives me stabilization on the fp L.

Which body would you recommend focusing on for exploring/learning all the video features?

For higher quality video, I would probably choose the fpL because it is primarily intended for video camera use. It's a lot smaller and lighter, which is fine for discreet and everyday stills shooting, but not if you want to shoot video handheld.

The S1R is a very nice camera, but it is geared for stills, with video as an add-on feature. Your S1 would have been fantastic for video, although it has been IR converted. Having said that, the S1R has the same video features as the S1, it just lacks some more beefy codecs and the dual-ISO sensor of the S1. Depending on what you shoot and what level of quality you want, the S1R could probably work for you as a video camera.

For me, things like IBIS and a mechanical shutter are essential as I shoot both stills and video, so I'd go with the S1R if I had to, or the S1 with v-log upgrade if I had the choice. As you already have a S1R, use that as much as possible until you hit limitations, then figure out if the fpL will get past them.

This video shows some decent 4k footage from the S1R:

 

[shawn]

Thanks, I took the fp L out yesterday with the Sigma 70-200 f2.8 to a zoo with a monopod (tilt head only) to just play around and see what I could get. Stupidly, I forgot my reading glasses so the LCD was a bit of a challenge. It tended to miss focus a bit but overall happy with what I got, some handheld too. Handheld will likely work better with the 24-105. I used the crop/zoom feature a fair amount at the full 2.5x in UHD recording using GOP. Considering the reach this was a compact setup.

A few clips just thrown together here if you want to see what it looks like. When moving there are a couple of places with an odd look which I think is a combination of the OIS in the lens and maybe an interaction with FCPs stabilization along with possibly some rolling shutter. Need to look at the original files to see for sure. Color/exposure wasn't touched on these.

Will try the same thing with the S1R to see how it compares.

Thanks!

 

[Archiver]

Thanks, I took the fp L out yesterday with the Sigma 70-200 f2.8 to a zoo with a monopod (tilt head only) to just play around and see what I could get. Stupidly, I forgot my reading glasses so the LCD was a bit of a challenge. It tended to miss focus a bit but overall happy with what I got, some handheld too. Handheld will likely work better with the 24-105. I used the crop/zoom feature a fair amount at the full 2.5x in UHD recording using GOP. Considering the reach this was a compact setup.

A few clips just thrown together here if you want to see what it looks like. When moving there are a couple of places with an odd look which I think is a combination of the OIS in the lens and maybe an interaction with FCPs stabilization along with possibly some rolling shutter. Need to look at the original files to see for sure. Color/exposure wasn't touched on these.

Will try the same thing with the S1R to see how it compares.

Thanks!

Colours look pleasant and natural, which I like. What colour profile did you use on the fpL?

There are times when it snaps into focus, was that using autofocus?

I suspect your untouched S1R footage might look better than this, as long as exposure and white balance are right. Try Neutral profile, or Cinelike D2 or V2 if they are available on the S1R.

 

[shawn]

Colours look pleasant and natural, which I like. What colour profile did you use on the fpL?

There are times when it snaps into focus, was that using autofocus?

I suspect your untouched S1R footage might look better than this, as long as exposure and white balance are right. Try Neutral profile, or Cinelike D2 or V2 if they are available on the S1R.

It was the Standard color profile which is also nice for photos. Most of the time I was using AF with it set to always on. MF a few times, think the blue birds were in MF. Exposure was all auto as I wanted to see what it did on its own. Have to get used to shutter angles and the waveform display. I'll also try it in CinemaRaw soon.

I will try the S1R soon too. More rain today so I didn't head out. It does have Cinelike V, Cinelike D and also Like.709 in additional to all the regular color modes. Want to try it in 4k and also the 5k mode which is supposed to be good but cropped.

Thanks!

 

[Archiver]

More for @helen.HH to watch and consider:

Shot on Panasonic S1H with Leica R lenses. The Panasonic S5 is much less expensive and shoots very similarly, although the S1H has a low pass filter which softens the picture very slightly and removes moire.



Shot on Panasonic S5 with Sigma 14mm f1.8, 35mm f1.4 and 85mm f1.4 EF mount lenses. The S5 is about the same size as the Sony FX30, it is only bigger because of the EVF. The body and grip are the same size.



One of the main differences between the Sony FX3/FX30 and the Panasonic S series is that the Sonys will shoot 4k 60p in full sensor width, but the Panasonics crop 4k 60p to aps-c size. The Panasonics shoot 4k 24p in full sensor width, though. And the full frame Panasonic S% will shoot stills at much higher resolution than the Sony FX3, 24mp vs 12mp.

Your choice will also be influenced by whether you plan to carry the camera with you all the time: if so, then a smaller Panasonic option is the new S9:



The S9 has the same sensor and image quality as the newer S5 Mark II, but has 10 minute recording limits because of the small body size and heat dissipation. It's intended for vloggers and content creators, but as seen here, you can adapt M mount lenses to it with good results. It also lacks a mechanical shutter, which can cause distortion in fast moving objects like cars, trains and people, as well as horizontal bands in certain artificial light. But overall, it's a useful option for a very compact full frame camera that can adapt M mount lenses.

 

[helen.HH]

More for @helen.HH to watch and consider:

Shot on Panasonic S1H with Leica R lenses. The Panasonic S5 is much less expensive and shoots very similarly, although the S1H has a low pass filter which softens the picture very slightly and removes moire.



Shot on Panasonic S5 with Sigma 14mm f1.8, 35mm f1.4 and 85mm f1.4 EF mount lenses. The S5 is about the same size as the Sony FX30, it is only bigger because of the EVF. The body and grip are the same size.



One of the main differences between the Sony FX3/FX30 and the Panasonic S series is that the Sonys will shoot 4k 60p in full sensor width, but the Panasonics crop 4k 60p to aps-c size. The Panasonics shoot 4k 24p in full sensor width, though. And the full frame Panasonic S% will shoot stills at much higher resolution than the Sony FX3, 24mp vs 12mp.

Your choice will also be influenced by whether you plan to carry the camera with you all the time: if so, then a smaller Panasonic option is the new S9:



The S9 has the same sensor and image quality as the newer S5 Mark II, but has 10 minute recording limits because of the small body size and heat dissipation. It's intended for vloggers and content creators, but as seen here, you can adapt M mount lenses to it with good results. It also lacks a mechanical shutter, which can cause distortion in fast moving objects like cars, trains and people, as well as horizontal bands in certain artificial light. But overall, it's a useful option for a very compact full frame camera that can adapt M mount lenses.

all the above
vid/s were informative & grand
' J'ADORE 'Goodnight Paris'
and
the visuals shot with the S9 were tres cool, Moody,
eye candy...

Thank You Archiver !!

 

[p.giannakis]

I have no idea about video cameras but when the company I work for hired a promotional agency, they all came there and shot the videos with 2-3 Sony A7iii

 

[shawn]

One of the main differences between the Sony FX3/FX30 and the Panasonic S series is that the Sonys will shoot 4k 60p in full sensor width, but the Panasonics crop 4k 60p to aps-c size. The Panasonics shoot 4k 24p in full sensor width, though. And the full frame Panasonic S% will shoot stills at much higher resolution than the Sony FX3, 24mp vs 12mp.

The S1R crops slightly but I think it is 1.09x and it also gives you the option of cropping to aps-c or pixel/pixel which is a tighter crop. Somewhat similiar to the fp L in that you can use that to increase the reach of a lens when shooting video. Looks like it has a 15 minute timer on 4k60. Not sure if that changed as the Panasonic site says 30 minutes but when I just set mine up it showed a 15 minute timer.

 

[Archiver]

The S1R crops slightly but I think it is 1.09x and it also gives you the option of cropping to aps-c or pixel/pixel which is a tighter crop. Somewhat similiar to the fp L in that you can use that to increase the reach of a lens when shooting video. Looks like it has a 15 minute timer on 4k60. Not sure if that changed as the Panasonic site says 30 minutes but when I just set mine up it showed a 15 minute timer.

From what I've read, the S1R has a 15 minute time limit on 4k 60/50p. Not sure why the Panasonic site says 30 minutes.