A cautionary tale about buying on Ebay from Japan

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Peter_S

Peter_S
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Its been a while since I posted here, but I just wanted to share two episodes of " Exc+5" and "near mint" camera purchases from Ebay in Japan.
1) Contax T. Surely looking in good condition. First two rolls - light leak! Costly repair in Norway, back in action.
2) Contax TVS, Exc+5. Just outside the return period - flex cable problem. Not repairable, no return. I now have 28-35mm Contax TVS.
I will not claim that the sellers knew, but I can just urge to shoot a few rolls (not just one) within the return period (which is short).
(as well: Earlier I got a GF670W that was also purchased there...that had the battery drain issue)

The unforturtante side insight is that quite a few Contax cameras seem to come to the end of their life span, which hurts a bit as a long-time (hard core) Contax owner...
 
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I am sorry but I don't see where your problem relates to Japan or Ebay. If you are buying aging electronic cameras that have no parts support and vanishing little repair support I can't see why it makes any difference if you buy from Japan, Korea, Germany, or Argentina. The problem is with the types of cameras you are buying, not the source. I have never owned, or wanted to own, an electronic Contax, but I have been reading for years the laments of Contax owners and wannabe owners over the condition of the remaining bodies. As you are a "long-time Contax owner" I cannot believe that you were unaware of the chances you took.
 
There is however a point to be made that cameras (edit: and lenses!) from Japan used to be of decent quality, but all the good cameras have been more or less "harvested off" what is being sold now is already returns (which they then refuse to be returned again) and stuff that comes back through back-channels from China and asia.

I am in Japan and there has been a very steep and noticeable decline in all used gear sold here, especially compared to the heyday of the film revival around 2012-2016 and the decline is not just for online selling including eBay, Yahoo and others, but across the board. Prices went up and the quality of the stuff sold went way down. This is not just electronic cameras either, I have seen very frankensteined Nikon SPs (black) and Canon rangefinders as well as some Leica lenses that looked very suspicious.

I recently got burned myself on a CV 35/1.7 Aspherical - lens was described as "A+ like new" condition and looked pristine, no haze almost no scratches and moved smoothly. I checked in the shop. It appears to be missing an entire element compared to the lens diagram. So of course it doesn't focus right and the picture can be kindly described as pictorialist until stopped down to f/8 or more - making the lens borderline useless.

I tried to return it within their one-week-policy and they steadfastly refused saying that since the lens "makes an image it's not returnable" I don't need to tell you that this is borderline fraud. And I will not be going to that particular shop ever again.

But again in my view this is but a reflection of a wider issue.
Buyer beware!
 
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No large seller film checks their cameras. So no way to determine if there is a light leak. Sellers in the US or almost any country do a once over to see if the camera main functions work. It's up to you to run film through the camera and make sure it works. You have a sufficient grace period to return the cameras, your failure to do so is not indicative of any particular seller in any country.

I've also made the mistake of buying a camera and then going on holiday only to find on my return that the camera has faults. That's on me. I don't go blaming a country on my failure to check the camera out post haste.
 
newst said:
I am sorry but I don't see where your problem relates to Japan or Ebay. If you are buying aging electronic cameras that have no parts support and vanishing little repair support I can't see why it makes any difference if you buy from Japan, Korea, Germany, or Argentina. The problem is with the types of cameras you are buying, not the source. I have never owned, or wanted to own, an electronic Contax, but I have been reading for years the laments of Contax owners and wannabe owners over the condition of the remaining bodies. As you are a "long-time Contax owner" I cannot believe that you were unaware of the chances you took.
Click to expand...
You have a point. I said Japan because that is where the majority of these cameras are found, particularly by commercial sellers. It was about Ebay, not Japan per se - a country and society I admire for many things. No, I was not aware of the problems - that was the point. Call me naive, but I - and I may not be alone - need to recalibrate to the reality. For those who know already - good. Others may not.

I also did not specify the shops on purpose, because the sellers unlikely acted on purpose, and their businesses are legit and solid. The point was not to not buy at all but rather to check all cameras throughoutly right after purchase - after all it may take a while to get through a few rolls of film.

I will continue to use the T and possiblty the TVS, possibly for years to come. Not too many alternatives out there.
 
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For what it's worth, if a seller claims an item works and it doesn't, you can compel the seller to take the return even if they claim they don't. Ebay will override any "no returns" statements if the item isn't as represented.
 
I think it's still useful to mention Japan because it has (up until recently very deservedly) had the reputation as a sort of old camera mecca where you could not only get very rare stuff but most of it being exceptionally well cared for.

Sadly this has changed a bit in recent times and now one has to consider their purchase very carefully regardless of where the gear comes from.
 
TenEleven said:
There is however a point to be made that cameras (edit: and lenses!) from Japan used to be of decent quality, but all the good cameras have been more or less "harvested off" what is being sold now is already returns (which they then refuse to be returned again) and stuff that comes back through back-channels from China and asia.

I am in Japan and there has been a very steep and noticeable decline in all used gear sold here, especially compared to the heyday of the film revival around 2012-2016 and the decline is not just for online selling including eBay, Yahoo and others, but across the board. Prices went up and the quality of the stuff sold went way down. This is not just electronic cameras either, I have seen very frankensteined Nikon SPs (black) and Canon rangefinders as well as some Leica lenses that looked very suspicious.

I recently got burned myself on a CV 35/1.7 Aspherical - lens was described as "A+ like new" condition and looked pristine, no haze almost no scratches and moved smoothly. I checked in the shop. It appears to be missing an entire element compared to the lens diagram. So of course it doesn't focus right and the picture can be kindly described as pictorialist until stopped down to f/8 or more - making the lens borderline useless.

I tried to return it within their one-week-policy and they steadfastly refused saying that since the lens "makes an image it's not returnable" I don't need to tell you that this is borderline fraud. And I will not be going to that particular shop ever again.

But again in my view this is but a reflection of a wider issue.
Buyer beware!
Click to expand...
name the shop so all can avoid
 
raid said:
avoid ... ebay? Food for thought. Take more photos. Buy less equipment?
Click to expand...
Sure, except that I sold most of my equipment and its down to a Ricoh GR and the two said Contax (and all support my income). The TVS I wanted to sell - I only got that to cover the month-long repair of the T (oh, the irony). Its tough now (and money lost) and I keep it for work with filters.
Seems not too overly consumptive?
 
How do you say caveat emptor in Japanese? In my experience once a sure thing,
lately I am more discerning before making purchases from eBay sellers in Japan.

Condition may be over-rated and hyped; always examine all of the photos carefully.
Japan is a humid country, so I am especially careful to look for evidence of corrosion.
For example I will not purchase a 35mm film camera with rust on the film guide rails.

Operation may not be thoroughly checked, and some dealers will feign ignorance.
Fortunately the majority of sellers will check items in response to specific questions.

On average their items are far better than the junk often listed by domestic eBay sellers.
They do get their wares from people who in general take much better care of their stuff.

Chris
 
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ChrisPlatt said:
How do you say caveat emptor in Japanese? In my experience once a sure thing,
lately I am more discerning before making purchases from eBay sellers in Japan.

Condition may be over-rated and hyped; always examine all of the photos carefully.
Japan is a humid country, so I am especially careful to look for evidence of corrosion.
For example I will not purchase a 35mm film camera with rust on the film guide rails.

Operation may not be thoroughly checked, and some dealers will feign ignorance.
Fortunately the majority of sellers will check items in response to specific questions.

On average their items are far better than the junk often listed by domestic eBay sellers.
They do get their wares from people who in general take much better care of their stuff.

Chris
Click to expand...
One common tactic I have seen is to feign ignorance or simply not list defects.
They do the same strategy domestically as well.

You can uncover this by going through their other listings if they have any.

So, for example the listing, for a lens you'd consider to buy says "lenses unchecked - look fine to me - but I am not an expert!" or something similar. Or maybe just "unchecked, not an expert" - any variation of this theme that you can think of.
Then when you browse the sellers listings another listing suddenly mentions "the lenses move smoothly and are free of mold and cloudiness except for a few pieces of dust". Huh! Suddenly they know about lenses!

Sadly I have been told that the various auction houses (Yahoo, eBay, Mercari) let this fly and it will be hard to get a return despite the sellers intent being very clearly to deceive here. Thus - check their other listings thoroughly as well and assume that anything not mentioned implies that there might be something wrong.

This is doubly frustrating because there are sellers out there who legit do not know, and I have taken that gamble on accordingly priced items a couple of times in the past and won. But of course you will not "win" against someone who is out to deceive from the word "go". Now I am much, much more wary
 
Maybe I have been lucky, but I have only had one poor Ebay experience recently, and that was with a North American vendor.

One thing I always do is to only buy from sellers with a rating of 98% or higher.
 
CP93 said:
Maybe I have been lucky, but I have only had one poor Ebay experience recently, and that was with a North American vendor.

One thing I always do is to only buy from sellers with a rating of 98% or higher.
Click to expand...

That lured me too - no negative used-purchases (ebay or elsewhere) until the recent episodes (and that extends past photo gear).
 
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