KismetSky
Established
I just purchased the M10P listed here:
www.rangefinderforum.com
But doing some additional reverse image searching, I found the exact same pictures in this listing with the same description:
offerup.com
Not sure what I can do at this point. They sent me an invoice via Paypal and I paid via the Paypal link.
Any suggestions on what I can do to have my money returned?
Leica M10-P w/ Lenses - SOLD
Original box and accessories. 2 lenses. Nokton 50mm f1.2 aspherical Super wide Aspherical III 15mm f4.5 +128g SD card Car and home charger included Al
But doing some additional reverse image searching, I found the exact same pictures in this listing with the same description:
Leica M10-P w/ Lenses - Excellent Condition for Sale in Imperial Beach, CA - OfferUp
Used (normal wear), Original box and accessories. 2 lenses. Nokton 50mm f1.2 aspherical Super wide Aspherical III 15mm f4.5 +128g SD card Car and home charger included All excellent condition. Selling because I want to focus on film photography. eBay chargers 12% sell charge but will...
offerup.com
Not sure what I can do at this point. They sent me an invoice via Paypal and I paid via the Paypal link.
Any suggestions on what I can do to have my money returned?
Slumgullion
Well-known
Hmmm. I assume that before posting here you asked the seller for an explanation?
KismetSky
Established
I've asked for a refund but no response. I went ahead and submitted a report via Paypal which also notifies the seller and also no response. I'm at least hoping Paypal freezes the funds so it can be reversed rather easily.
Slumgullion
Well-known
Did you have any communication with the seller before purchasing? They have posted on RFF somewhat infrequently for a few years. At a cursory glance their posts seem 'real.' Doesn't exactly strike me as something a con-artist would do.
Contact Paypal. Did you put it on a credit card? You can reverse the charges if the item is not received.
Slumgullion
Well-known
Which isn't to say that the apparent lack of communication after the fact isn't alarming, but still...would be a strange long con.
joe bosak
Well-known
I can't view the second link so it's not immediately clear why you'd think it's a scam. Presume it's not just advertising in two places? The second one isn't some AI-generated noise on t'interwebs?
Paypal offer some protection, though as I recall it's more about stuff not arriving or being as advertised. If you just seem to have cold feet about the transaction I'd guess they'd be less sympathetic. In the UK there are distance selling regulations which let you cancel purchases in a given timeframe, I don't know whether that would cover this anyway let alone whether there's similar protection where you are.
Lesson for next time is do your due diligence checks before buying rather than after, but you know that.
Paypal offer some protection, though as I recall it's more about stuff not arriving or being as advertised. If you just seem to have cold feet about the transaction I'd guess they'd be less sympathetic. In the UK there are distance selling regulations which let you cancel purchases in a given timeframe, I don't know whether that would cover this anyway let alone whether there's similar protection where you are.
Lesson for next time is do your due diligence checks before buying rather than after, but you know that.
KismetSky
Established
Yep, I think I gave too much stock in RFF being a quiet niche community. I did a few reverse image searches on one search engine but didn't turn up any results until the last image on a different search engine. All the previous posts seem real but the original account seems to belong to one individual while the Paypal was for an entirely different name - my guess is a compromised RFF account.
Did you use a credit card linked to your Paypal Account?
The Paypal account being a different name from the name on the RFF ad would be a Red Flag.
The credit card company will most likely reverse the charge, and Paypal can complain all they want. Hopefully they stop the transaction first.
The Paypal account being a different name from the name on the RFF ad would be a Red Flag.
The credit card company will most likely reverse the charge, and Paypal can complain all they want. Hopefully they stop the transaction first.
KismetSky
Established
Yup - credit card based transaction so I do have that to fall back on as well. Hopefully one of the two will cancel and reverse the charge.
Someone hacked my Wife's Paypal and was putting a ~$30/month recurring charge on it, went over to her credit card. Paypal had a Data Breach about that time.
www.forbes.com
Paypal did nothing, the Credit Card reversed all charges.
Paypal warned her she may not get to use Paypal anymore if she reversed the charges.
She closed the Paypal account. I closed mine when they went crazy with the terms of service.
Thousands Of PayPal Accounts Breached—Is Yours One Of Them?
It has been confirmed that thousands of PayPal accounts were accessed by credential stuffing attackers between December 6 and 8, 2022.
www.forbes.com
Paypal did nothing, the Credit Card reversed all charges.
Paypal warned her she may not get to use Paypal anymore if she reversed the charges.
She closed the Paypal account. I closed mine when they went crazy with the terms of service.
IP address, Morocco.
Multiple logins with this IP, these accounts:
Kingtimur has 7 posts from 2020/2021. The account appears to have been compromised.
Multiple logins with this IP, these accounts:
Kingtimur has 7 posts from 2020/2021. The account appears to have been compromised.
To greatly reduce the chance of accounts being compromised it is highly recommended to enable two step verification on your RFF account which can be done here:
Two-step verification you have to enter your password, plus you have to do a second step, one of these:
email verification:
app verification:
If you choose email, you'll also be presented with ten 'backup codes' which you can store in a secure location if you don't have access to the app, or your email.
Two-step verification you have to enter your password, plus you have to do a second step, one of these:
email verification:
app verification:
If you choose email, you'll also be presented with ten 'backup codes' which you can store in a secure location if you don't have access to the app, or your email.
The site should also seriously consider enabling a security lock on accounts that have not been active in a long time.
There is an add-on that will do this, the only setting is how long does an account have to remain inactive before the lock is enabled.
@CameraQuest ?
There is an add-on that will do this, the only setting is how long does an account have to remain inactive before the lock is enabled.
@CameraQuest ?
Beemermark
Veteran
I'm on forums not affiliated with cameras. Pricey items sold and bought via MO or CC only. Forums require a buyer/seller to have at least 50 posts (or more) before they can even see the classified sections. Scammers are quickly pointed out. Needless to say before I send someone a check for $3000 I perform due vigilance. People on this forum will only do PayPal. I think they place was too much confidence in PayPal guaranteeing the sale.
This is exactly why scammers seek out old established accounts. And why inactive accounts should be security locked.
Everyone is free to make their own choices with regards to what their level of confidence is regarding a transaction and how payments should be made, but it's been well-established for decades to many buyers/sellers that it's worth paying the paypal fees for buyer/seller protection.
Everyone is free to make their own choices with regards to what their level of confidence is regarding a transaction and how payments should be made, but it's been well-established for decades to many buyers/sellers that it's worth paying the paypal fees for buyer/seller protection.
Beemermark
Veteran
My point is you need to do some work and make sure the seller is legit. And I love PP, use it all the time. Just don't rely on them to protect or refund me from a scammer. I'm hoping the OP replies with what PP tells him. I'd bet dollars to donuts the money went to a new PP user account then immediately transferred to a newly opened (and closed) bank account. So will PP take $4600 out of the CEO's pocket?
trix4ever
Well-known
If I had to do this I would stop using RFF instantly......sorry
Well that's standard procedure for any transaction, remote or in person.
Why would anyone rather have a less secure account instead of a more secure one?
Explain.