Kodak Retina IIIc Shutter Ring Wont Move to 1/500

[JGW006]

I have a beautiful Kodak Retina IIIc. It was CLA’d a couple of years ago (prior owner) by Paul Bearden (sp?). I shot a roll over the weekend, and noticed that I can’t move the shutter ring such that the white indicator dot is opposite the “500”. The closest it will get is halfway between “250” and “500”. I have moved the aperture ring as far as it will go, each way as far as it will go, trying to set the shutter to “500”, and it won’t go past the halfway point between “250” and “500”. Attached is a picture.

Any ideas, suggestions, etc will be appreciated.

JGW

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Try advancing the film and cocking the shutter first, then set to 1/500th. The 1/500th speed has an extra spring in it. This requires more tension, and can cause damage to the "Cocking Rack". It may be an interlock.

 

[DownUnder]

Old age strikes again. Ask me, I know...

My Retina (the same model) also did this. Oddly, it didn't seem to affect the speeds all that much, but then I had no way of 'officially' verifying how accurate those were anyway. So it's all entirely theoretical.

Eventually I sold the camera to someone who when I last checked about a year ago, was still using it. Film photographers love old Retinas. They are fine cameras, even wonderful cameras, and many just keep going without much to be done to them. Kodak really knew how to build them back then. And the Schneider lenses are by far the best.

Another CLA may fix this. Or you can just live with it.

Others may have suggestions of their own to make. #2 may be close to the mark, it's worth trying. Anyway, I will be following with interest, out of curiosity. As they say in England and the few remaining colonies - best!!

 

[Muggins]

I have a Retina II restored to working condition by Chris Sherlock that does this as well. TBH, I just work on the latitude of the film to cover any difference it makes. Mind you, I'm in the UK, so do I ever need to use 1/500 at maximum aperture?

 

[mdarnton]

Suggesting the opposite... set the shutter uncocked. Then you aren't working against the force of an already cocked spring.

Requires reading:

How to use a Compur Shutter

The classic rim-set Compur was a high quality shutter that was fitted to countless cameras ever since it was first introduced in the mid 1930’s. They were the best shutters of their era and because of their performance and reliability they were often used by camera manufacturers on their more...

www.petrakla.com

 

[raydm6]

Suggesting the opposite...set the shutter uncocked. Then you aren't working against the force of an already cocked spring.

How to use a Compur Shutter

The classic rim-set Compur was a high quality shutter that was fitted to countless cameras ever since it was first introduced in the mid 1930’s. They were the best shutters of their era and because of their performance and reliability they were often used by camera manufacturers on their more...

www.petrakla.com

I think you’re right. I don’t have my Retina handy at the moment but that sounds reasonable.

The fastest shutter speed setting

You cannot set any Compur, Compur-Rapid or Synchro-Compur shutter it to its fastest shutter speed if it’s cocked! If you try to force it you'll probably break something. You must select the fastest speed before cocking the shutter. You’ll also notice that if you decide to use this setting, it takes extra effort to move the speed selector ring to that position. It also take considerably more effort to cock the shutter. This is normal. This is because the fastest shutter speed engages a second, rather stiff spring to force the shutter blades to move as fast as possible.

How to use a Compur Shutter

The classic rim-set Compur was a high quality shutter that was fitted to countless cameras ever since it was first introduced in the mid 1930’s. They were the best shutters of their era and because of their performance and reliability they were often used by camera manufacturers on their more...

www.petrakla.com

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Kodak Retina IIIc user manual, instruction manual, PDF camera manual

Kodak Retina IIIc instruction manual in PDF format.

www.butkus.org

It does not seem to matter for the IIIc. The manual advises to cock the shutter after every exposure.

The 35mm Voigtlander Prominent-

https://www.cameramanuals.org/voigtlander_pdf/voigtlander_prominent_i.pdf

1/500th must be set before cocking the shutter. I just tried both cameras.
The Voigtlander- you can feel the extra tension. You can also cock the shutter manually, then advance it.

 

[Godfrey]

OP @JGW006 :

I have both Retina IIc and IIIc cameras. The IIc and IIIc have the same or similar Synchro-Compur shutter, albeit the IIIc model might have a slightly larger diameter to accommodate the f/2 lens. ... I would verify this but my IIIc is off at the shop for a service at present. But I pulled out my IIc ... the shutter markings on both are identical and the shutter works the same way. On the Retina, you can set 1/500 second whether or not the shutter is cocked ... there is no difference in the feel of the shutter ring despite the additional spring load.

What I noticed in your photo is that the camera does seem to be set at 1/500 second ... I think you're simply misreading the shutter dial markings. Here's a clear photo of my IIc shutter dial set to 1/500 second @ f/8:



and here with some red markings to help you see what the indice and settings are:



Note that the speed indice mark is the little mark right at the left edge of the "500" indication, in line with the "5". If you look down the row of shutter speed markings, you'll note that the indices are only really centered on the slow speed train from B to 1/4 sec, all the rest of the indices are offset to some degree against the time number. This is due to the fact that the indices are spaced equidistantly but the engraved speed marking numbers vary in width.

The long and the short of this is that the shutter speed in your camera is properly set to 1/500 second, and you are simply misreading where the setting is placed.

G

 

[JSteed#2]

I have two Retinas, one dead because of the advance mechanism and one alive but for 1/500 second. I get the lovely snick at 1/500, but nothing opens. Spring? Shall i sacrifice the dead one's shutter, or perhaps the spring, for the sake of the live one?

 

[Godfrey]

Only a disassembly and examination of the shutter that's not working will tell you what repair or part is required. Same for problems with the other camera's advance mechanism. My experience is that it's often something quite simple, if you have the skills and knowledge to do the work. Unless you're a tech experienced in the servicing of these cameras, I'd suggest just handing them to such a technician and getting the repair done.

I have no illusions that I am capable of doing this kind of work myself. That's why I send my cameras off for service and repair...

G

 

[KoNickon]

I have two Retinas, one dead because of the advance mechanism and one alive but for 1/500 second. I get the lovely snick at 1/500, but nothing opens. Spring? Shall i sacrifice the dead one's shutter, or perhaps the spring, for the sake of the live one?

My guess is that there is something not quite aligned in the shutter -- like that "booster" spring for the 1/500. But leaf shutters, the Syncro-Compur especially, are very complicated and not for the faint of heart, so I'd follow Godfrey's advice here and get someone experienced to take a look at it.

 

[santino]

I think we‘ve got the answer!

OP @JGW006 :

I have both Retina IIc and IIIc cameras. The IIc and IIIc have the same or similar Synchro-Compur shutter, albeit the IIIc model might have a slightly larger diameter to accommodate the f/2 lens. ... I would verify this but my IIIc is off at the shop for a service at present. But I pulled out my IIc ... the shutter markings on both are identical and the shutter works the same way. On the Retina, you can set 1/500 second whether or not the shutter is cocked ... there is no difference in the feel of the shutter ring despite the additional spring load.

What I noticed in your photo is that the camera does seem to be set at 1/500 second ... I think you're simply misreading the shutter dial markings. Here's a clear photo of my IIc shutter dial set to 1/500 second @ f/8:

View attachment 4845570

and here with some red markings to help you see what the indice and settings are:

View attachment 4845571

Note that the speed indice mark is the little mark right at the left edge of the "500" indication, in line with the "5". If you look down the row of shutter speed markings, you'll note that the indices are only really centered on the slow speed train from B to 1/4 sec, all the rest of the indices are offset to some degree against the time number. This is due to the fact that the indices are spaced equidistantly but the engraved speed marking numbers vary in width.

The long and the short of this is that the shutter speed in your camera is properly set to 1/500 second, and you are simply misreading where the setting is placed.

G

 

[Godfrey]

My guess is that there is something not quite aligned in the shutter -- like that "booster" spring for the 1/500. But leaf shutters, the Syncro-Compur especially, are very complicated and not for the faint of heart, so I'd follow Godfrey's advice here and get someone experienced to take a look at it.

If you spend enough time watching Chris Sherlock's "Retina Rescue" channel on YouTube, you can come to understand the Syncro-Compur shutter well. I don't think they're substantially more complicated than a good mechanical focal plane shutter, but they are very different in construction. But still ... I'm not trained as a camera technician, don't have the skills, tools, and space to do the work effectively, and wouldn't sacrifice one of my favorite cameras to a learning experience.

I'd love to learn how to work on these mechanisms... and watches too. Should probably take a couple of courses, since I'm retired now and have the time. 😀

G

 

[hap]

Consider Flutot in So Cal. They do nothing but shutters .

 

[Hcompton79]

I would concur with the assertion that the OP's shutter seems fine. It is aligned to the proper 1/500th position in the first example photo that the OP gave.

Also, In my experience with taking apart Retinas, while the Compur-Rapid shutters have the booster spring for the 1/500th speed, by the time the Synchro-Compur came around, there was no booster spring and the motion of the shutter blades was regulated purely by the single drive spring and escapement cam. This is apparent when you change the shutter speed on a cocked Synchro-Compur, there is no additional force required moving from 1/250th to 1/500th and vice versa.

 

[raydm6]

And don't play with the self-timer. That's asking for trouble 🙂

 

[Uglee]

I have two Retinas, one dead because of the advance mechanism and one alive but for 1/500 second. I get the lovely snick at 1/500, but nothing opens. Spring? Shall i sacrifice the dead one's shutter, or perhaps the spring, for the sake of the live one?

If you’re getting the “snick” at 1/500, it’s probably working fine. You should test it by opening the back, holding the camera at arm’s length pointing at a light source. You can easily see the difference in shutter speeds up thru 1/500.

 

[JGW006]

Thank you all! It seems my problem is my eyes and glasses prescription that might need updating!
JGW