Collectors value

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Clearly the seller has no clue what he has there. This is a Marine Sonnar 5cm f2. It was made for the German Navy during WWII. I don't know if it was used by the Navy. There is an additional engraving on the aperture ring starting with the letters MF (I forgot what that abbreviation stands for). The number is the number of a German submarine. If you find such a lens you can check for what submarine it was produced. Go to the German submarine wiki and look for U xxx.

U 1426 – U-Boot-Archiv Wiki

www.uboot-archiv.de www.uboot-archiv.de

The numbers I have seen so far where over 1187 and the mentioned submarines where never build. Contax cameras and Sonnar lenses from a submarine that was send into combat are probably extremely rare. A lot of them might be resting on the ground of the Atlantic ocean.

There are collectors of such Kriegsmarine stuff out there. The seller clearly does not know about it or he would have mentioned it in the title. It would generate some interest. And it is no use to contact him since he wrote that the item is in a store and that people should not ask for details. I would be mildly be interested in the MF number. But not so much that I buy this lens.

Photos are a little hit and miss since he let the filter on the lens. I suspect that this lens has no red T and is uncoated. Collapsible aluminum version of the Sonnar with a different construction than the chrome collapsible Sonnars. Very short before the switch to T-coating.
 
Räuber said:

| eBay

Entdecken Sie in der groÃen Auswahl bei eBay. Kostenlose Lieferung für viele Artikel!
www.ebay.de

Clearly the seller has no clue what he has there. This is a Marine Sonnar 5cm f2. It was made for the German Navy during WWII. I don't know if it was used by the Navy. There is an additional engraving on the aperture ring starting with the letters MF (I forgot what that abbreviation stands for). The number is the number of a German submarine. If you find such a lens you can check for what submarine it was produced. Go to the German submarine wiki and look for U xxx.

U 1426 – U-Boot-Archiv Wiki

www.uboot-archiv.de www.uboot-archiv.de

The numbers I have seen so far where over 1187 and the mentioned submarines where never build. Contax cameras and Sonnar lenses from a submarine that was send into combat are probably extremely rare. A lot of them might be resting on the ground of the Atlantic ocean.

There are collectors of such Kriegsmarine stuff out there. The seller clearly does not know about it or he would have mentioned it in the title. It would generate some interest. And it is no use to contact him since he wrote that the item is in a store and that people should not ask for details. I would be mildly be interested in the MF number. But not so much that I buy this lens.

Photos are a little hit and miss since he let the filter on the lens. I suspect that this lens has no red T and is uncoated. Collapsible aluminum version of the Sonnar with a different construction than the chrome collapsible Sonnars. Very short before the switch to T-coating.
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It's legit? I've seen so many fakes over the years I always presume it's not. I don't have any interest in that kind of material either (I prefer prewar) but the post made me curious is all.

Thanks!
 
wlewisiii said:
It's legit? I've seen so many fakes over the years I always presume it's not. I don't have any interest in that kind of material either (I prefer prewar) but the post made me curious is all.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

This lens is legit. It ticks all the boxes: valid serial, valid version, valid range of MF engravings

The real issue is the age and condition. Sonnar and Contax desperately need a CLA. I can not tell from the photos how bad it is but it sure is a gamble. It might be a bargain on the other hand. There will not be a lot buyers on Ebay interested in an old camera and lens in that bad shape.

​

 
www.leitz-auction.com

Carl Zeiss Jena Contax Jena 'Ivory' | A01186

One of the very few original Contax Jena with a painted ivory finish, from the usual serial number range 279XX, with matching Sonnar 2/5cm no.3104785, original brown leather covering, camera and lens in used, original condition, speeds not 100% accurate.…
www.leitz-auction.com www.leitz-auction.com

I missed this appearing, it explains the coffee-and-cream fake that I recall on here years ago. I remember saying that it would look good next to my Argus C3 Matchmatic.

I can't help thinking that it looks like the offspring of an Ilford Advocate and a 1940s "woody" shooting brake.
 
Ivory Contax cameras and Carl Zeiss Jena lenses are real and no hoax. In the meantime people have even spotted black and red painted lenses.


If you have money to burn then go for it. 😄

www.ebay.de

Contax II Elfenbein IVORY Edition + Carl Zeiss T Sonnar 5cm 1:2 + COLLECTIBLE + | eBay

Bei Gebrauchtware ist mit Gebrauchsspuren am Gehäuse (nicht Linse / Glas / Sensor) zu rechnen, wie auf den Bildern zu ersehen. Sofern nicht anders angegeben, ist die Funktionalität zu 100% gegeben. An- und Verkauf.
www.ebay.de
 
If only! Especially with Ed TRzoska in semi-retirement!

I may well watch your Kriegsmarine lens, though, just to see what it makes. I'm fascinated by how well documented German cameras and lenses can be - I guess there's a stereotype there, isn't there?

ETA - I am watching it, someone has bid, I wonder if they have seen it here?
 
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Rauber, the MF marked lenses often sell for 4 or 5 times as much as an unmarked copy. I may throw a bid on it late in the auction.
 
dexdog said:
Rauber, the MF marked lenses often sell for 4 or 5 times as much as an unmarked copy. I may throw a bid on it late in the auction.
Click to expand...

I will not participate in bidding. I shortly thought about it. I have no MF Sonnar and it could be nice for showing in the guide or blogging about it. But in the end I already have 2 of those collapsible Sonnars and I have spend my budget for this month already. If I kept quite I could have snatched this one but I thought maybe someone here might appreciate it more then me.
 
dexdog said:
Rauber, the MF marked lenses often sell for 4 or 5 times as much as an unmarked copy. I may throw a bid on it late in the auction.
Click to expand...
Oi, form an orderly queue!

Just kidding - if it had stayed unbid-upon I might have put in a couple of pounds just to sell on with the knowledge from here (I might need the cash...). Will be interesting to see how it goes.
 
www.ebay.de

Carl Zeiss R-sonnar 1.5/50mm part | eBay

<p>Good day.I would like to present you a rare lensblock to the lens Carl Zeiss R-Sonnar 1.5/50mm .Without aperture, without helicoid . The kit only includes the case, and the lenses.</p><p>The lenses have defects scratches, the front lens shows a few small chips. There is dirt in the middle...
www.ebay.de

This is another collectors item. An Carl Zeiss Jena R-Sonnar 5cm f/1.5 from 1942. Those R-Sonnars are pretty rare and usually are 4 times as expensive. The caveat is it is an R-Sonnar. It has no aperture ring and no aperture blades at all. You can not use it on a Contax camera or any other camera out of the box. Only people like @Sonnar Brian might get it to work. You have to add pretty much everything a generic lens needs to be used at a camera.

The R-Sonnar is build to be used for photographing X-Ray screens. Back in the days they used fluorescent screens that reacted to X-Rays. To permanently take an picture of the the result they used special RSBK cameras. Those Röntgenschirmbildkameras were basically Tenax cameras. Those Tenax cameras came with an R-Sonnar. R stands for Röntgen. Those cameras were fixed in place and probably never moved. Since the distance between the fluorescent screen and camera never changed it was not necessary to change focus. And since the light that was emitted by the screen was very subtle the Sonnar was used wide open only. So they left out the aperture mechanism completely. That explains why this lens is so simplified.
 
@dexdog Can you show a picture of the whole lens? Would be interesting if this is a converted Jupiter body or black market conversion. The lens block is authentic but the LTM part has to be a conversion. Most of those lenses spend their live glued to on camera and were rarely touched. So condition is often very good. On the other side those R-Sonnars were the best lenses of their time. Picked because of their light gathering, sharpness and flat field of view. Those R-Sonnars got T-coating and the last optical design from Ludwig Bertele he created for Zeiss Jena. So a lot of those wartime Sonnars turn out to be good lenses for taking photographs.
 
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@dexdog

* aperture mark: black line 👍
* aperture ring: Zeiss Opton font 👎
* focus scale: small m👍, Zeiss Jena font 👍

The body is a Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar LTM body. The issue is the aperture ring. The material does not match the typical used material and the engraved fonts are not valid Carl Zeiss Jena engravings. The fonts on the aperture ring point to the German black market. She engravings are the same as we have seen countless times on the 5,8cm Sonnars.

If I had to guess this was done by a German black market workshop. They had this lens block from an R-Sonnar and the body of an LTM Sonnar. It seems the aperture ring was missing and so they needed to create a new one. Luckily this gives away the source of this work. If they did not engraved the aperture ring it would be a wild guess if this lens was made by CZJ or KMZ. But so it is pretty safe that it was finished in Germany outside of CZJ.

Don't get me wrong the R-Sonnar lens block and the Sonnar LTM body are genuine and were valuable on its own in those days. There are stories of burglary into the Jena factory after WWII. But I find it more likely that this is a case of grep-what-you-can after the Soviets announced the requisition of the Jena factory. I imagine that a lot of workers took lens blocks and bodies unnoticed and hid them until the Soviets were gone. Later they assembled the unfinished lenses and sold them on the German black market to American soldiers to make a living. Your lens could be a proof of this.
 
One last think about this R-Sonnar conversion. Can you check out the aperture blades? As mentioned the R-Sonnar lens block has no aperture blades or ring. The question is, how did they solved this? Do they use a donor or did they build a replacement? A generic Sonnar 5cm f1.5 uses 13 aperture blades. The 5,8cm 1.5 Sonnar uses 12.
 
I would have transplanted the glass from the R-Sonnar to a Wartime Barrel with the aperture mechanism. I've transplanted glass from improperly machined barrels to those with bad glass.

On the R-Sonnar: is the lens optimized for close-up work? Or- is it just a standard lens without an aperture mechanism?
 
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