trix4ever
Well-known
Well I recently sent my M6 0.85 to Leica Melbourne because the frame lines stopped changing when changing lenses or using the preview lever.
3 weeks to quote and 4 weeks to fix it including adjusting rangefinder and shutter and general checkover. Doubt anyone else would have done better.
No sending to Germany, no taking a year.
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
I wonder how Leitz stiff-arming other repair shops fits in with the "right to repair" law. This Trolls of Wetzlar are not nice people and seem to keep getting worse as difficult as that is to conceive. They try to constrict the repair market and hog it to themselves and then take a year to fix a camera. Am I the only person who thinks that there is something wrong with this picture? Right to repair - Wikipedia
In the used car business there is the remark that someone is like a prince, with a "k".
trix4ever
Well-known
Nikon stopped supplying parts to 3rd party repair shops in 2012.
Leica is hardly unique in this.
It's business but still seems very wrong.
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boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
That there is another company doing the same does not make it right. And I wonder how the "Right to Repair" laws would affect this. It is obvious who is getting the end of the stick with the sticky brown stuff on it and who is getting the end with the gold-plated handle.
Freakscene
Obscure member
The 8 months is referring to any work that ends up in Wetzlar. For mechanical adjustments, service and other work like this Leica do a great job locally through Imaging by Design. But, for many jobs, for example, if you want the rangefinder adjusted for accuracy with any of the lenses with a floating element, or most work on an M7, they have to send it to Germany. I assume this is about checking and adjusting the floating element lenses first, or electronics in the M7, but irrespective, the delay is frustrating.
trix4ever
Well-known
The work I quoted was done by Leica Melbourne, not imaging by Design, who I agree are great.
Freakscene
Obscure member
I was under the impression that IbD do all their work. Do they have their own service people now?
Edit: when I have taken my film Ms to IbD, the quote comes from Leica Australia.
trix4ever
Well-known
You got me thinking so I went back through my emails.
When I approached Leica about cleaning my Q's sensor they told me to go direct to IbD, then IbD also cleaned my GR's sensor.
Later I approached IbD about the M6 0.85 and they did say can do it but you need to go through Leica. So I spoke to Leica who arranged to look at it. So I sent it to Leica Melbourne who quoted me and then emailed me when it was ready and Leica invoiced me.
A long-winded way of saying your are right. They probably subbed it out to IbD.
Freakscene
Obscure member
I thought so, but who knows when things change? It’s not as though they are transparent. We can only work this stuff out by inference, which is also frustrating.
farlymac
PF McFarland
I once sent an R-mount lens to Leica USA for repair of the aperture ring knowing full well it could take a long while before I got it back. After a few months I made an inquiry as to the work progress and they said it was almost done, and I'd have it back in a couple of weeks. A month later I asked again where it was, and they said it was ready to be shipped. Another month went by and again I asked what the issue was and got the same old story. Another month went by, and it finally arrived with no notice. I looked at the tech's notes and the work had been performed the day before they shipped it out.
For such a large outfit they certainly have a way of ruining the Leica Experience for new customers.
PF
For such a large outfit they certainly have a way of ruining the Leica Experience for new customers.
PF
Toni Nikkanen
Well-known
I am missing some context, who is this Oleg you refer to? Because I need to find someone who is good at restoring a Nicca 3-F rangefinder preferably in EU.
aw614
Established
That is his website, he replaced the curtains on my IIIS during the CLA.
Toni Nikkanen
Well-known
thanks! I just wanted to confirm this since I am actually already planning to send my Nicca there -- he repaired my great-grandpas Kiev-3 and now he has my Canon 35/2.8 LTM lens under work ...
That is his website, he replaced the curtains on my IIIS during the CLA.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
For Leica service, I have engaged Leica USA and DAG for the past thirty plus years. They have both done excellent work for me.
I find it very irritating to constantly see some folks on this forum referring to Leica as "Leica Trolls". If you think you can do a better job, go ahead and prove it: create a huge business and run it more successfully, and have every person who has any dealings with you come away saying, "Good job there!" I have had dealings with many different people at Leica and I don't consider any of those people "trolls"; they've all been very helpful and done their best for me. Not everything runs perfectly smoothly all the time, but I have no illusions that I could do a better job myself. The key to me is that every person I have interacted with has been helpful, personable, and responded in a solid, businesslike manner.
So many manufacturers across so many industries restrict parts availability, for various very justifiable economic and liability reasons, that singling out Leica as the bad guy is just BS. Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Pentax, Sony ... you name it ... all do it to one degree or another, and for good reasons. Various automobile and home appliance companies the same. It's where large businesses have gone in the modern world ... complaining about it without understanding why and offering a useful, realistic alternative solution is just whinging and spreading bad feeling.
G
I find it very irritating to constantly see some folks on this forum referring to Leica as "Leica Trolls". If you think you can do a better job, go ahead and prove it: create a huge business and run it more successfully, and have every person who has any dealings with you come away saying, "Good job there!" I have had dealings with many different people at Leica and I don't consider any of those people "trolls"; they've all been very helpful and done their best for me. Not everything runs perfectly smoothly all the time, but I have no illusions that I could do a better job myself. The key to me is that every person I have interacted with has been helpful, personable, and responded in a solid, businesslike manner.
So many manufacturers across so many industries restrict parts availability, for various very justifiable economic and liability reasons, that singling out Leica as the bad guy is just BS. Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Pentax, Sony ... you name it ... all do it to one degree or another, and for good reasons. Various automobile and home appliance companies the same. It's where large businesses have gone in the modern world ... complaining about it without understanding why and offering a useful, realistic alternative solution is just whinging and spreading bad feeling.
G
The decision to stop providing parts to third party shops may be good business for Nikon and others, but I disagree that it is in Leica's best interest as a niche supplier, especially for film camera parts. Third parties have limited ability to service digital cameras and replace parts anyway, so there may be little to no need to supply parts for digital cameras to third party repair depots.
This decision apparently is a result of the retirement of long-time Leica USA parts manager Dave Elwell. As a niche service shop I used to buy small parts for film camera restorations direct from Leica via Dave. Now there are only two shops that Leica sells these parts to: DAG and YYE. Easier for Leica USA, but not necessarily a good solution for Leica users.
This decision apparently is a result of the retirement of long-time Leica USA parts manager Dave Elwell. As a niche service shop I used to buy small parts for film camera restorations direct from Leica via Dave. Now there are only two shops that Leica sells these parts to: DAG and YYE. Easier for Leica USA, but not necessarily a good solution for Leica users.
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
Leica makes a pretty good camera. It is becoming a consumer good like washer/dryers. "Comes the revolution, MBA's, cost accounting and marketing types: up against the wall." I do not understand how Leica is getting around the "Right to Re[air" laws.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Not being a lawyer or pretending that I can explain/understand all the litigation around "right to repair", I looked it up. Some things are apparent even to a non-lawyer like me:
- Right to Repair laws are not universal in the USA, they are enacted on a state by state basis, and they differ state to state.
- There are a number of exceptions and exclusions to such requirements. I won't even begin to try to understand the total context...
- The movement to right to repair is by no means universally accepted as a done thing; there are continuing pro and con contingents and litigation in process.
How anyone gets certified to manufacture and produce for sale products in the world with the labyrinth of regulations and stuff (in place of the four letter word) that exists is a marvel, and that labyrinth of regulations raises the cost of doing business — and the resulting prices — by a huge amount.
I'm glad I'm retired and have no interest in starting a manufacturing business.
G
- Right to Repair laws are not universal in the USA, they are enacted on a state by state basis, and they differ state to state.
- There are a number of exceptions and exclusions to such requirements. I won't even begin to try to understand the total context...
- The movement to right to repair is by no means universally accepted as a done thing; there are continuing pro and con contingents and litigation in process.
How anyone gets certified to manufacture and produce for sale products in the world with the labyrinth of regulations and stuff (in place of the four letter word) that exists is a marvel, and that labyrinth of regulations raises the cost of doing business — and the resulting prices — by a huge amount.
I'm glad I'm retired and have no interest in starting a manufacturing business.
G
Beemermark
Veteran
Same holds for watches like Omega.
fbf
Well-known
I don't believe leica officially supported any third party shops in US to begin with. We knew the connection Sherry and DAG had. YYE has been in the game for a long time and has accumulated enormous amount of the parts for the last 3 decades. YYE also had a great relationship with Don because he was able to take some of work load away from Don. Dave in Leica NJ was a gentleman and he was always nothing but helpful.
I am not even sure Leica still makes some of these parts or maybe they are somewhat interchangeable with the modern leica but as these master craftsmen age and parts become more scarce, it is going to be interesting to see what comes next
I am not even sure Leica still makes some of these parts or maybe they are somewhat interchangeable with the modern leica but as these master craftsmen age and parts become more scarce, it is going to be interesting to see what comes next
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
For me this is more than an academic question. I have this silly idea that Leica should fix their cameras in a timely manner and that they should be willing to supply parts to independent shops. Thankfully I have not yet had to suffer the lengthy waits attached to Leica repair. OTOH I sent a Sony A7M II to their designated repair facility in Windsor Locks, CT, had telephone contact the whole time, turnaround was like two weeks and a CLA and repair was ~$200. Some folks fix the damned things and some folks do not.
I was working at a figure skating championship years ago. Canon was the camera company there. Canon TV cameras. And Canon still cameras. If you were a pro with credentials you could just walk up and get whatever you wanted. They had a ton of gear on the shelves, all new,. They had a couple of crackerjack guys to support the cameras and do repairs. During rehearsals they would post a number and the message that if your camera was a Canon and its serial number ended in that number, bring it in for free repair and CLA. Anybody in the building with a Canon. So that's my experience with Sony and Canon. I'd bet that Nikon is about the same. And then there is Leica. High prices, low service. And they get away with it so why should they invest in having better service? Yeah, right. There is no need to. It is just disappointing. That's my two cents.