Leica M240 series battery scarcity

Godfrey said:
I find all this hysteria and Leica bashing kind of absurd. Particularly as Leica is the only manufacturer of rangefinder cameras, both digital and film, left, and this is supposedly the "Rangefinder Forum". 🙄

Get a life.
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Now Godfrey, that sort of dismissive attitude isn't constructive: Does anyone seriously believe that Leica can't simply order a few more batteries at say, $10/ea from Panasonic Energy (Wuxi) Co. Ltd., and have them readily available most of the time? To me, the frequent product shortages look like a classic play used by the luxury-products sector. Do I blame them for playing the game? No, not really, because I think whatever market they might have once had serving pros mostly died along with the profession. But that doesn't mean I can't roll my eyes when I see price increases which seem to roughly track the stock market :D
 
Sonnar Brian said:
I'm surprised that the Chinese have not reverse engineered the Leica battery and sell copies of it.
Sad that I can get Batteries for my M8 so easily, but not the much newer M240.
This is a cowardly way to render a perfectly usable camera as a paperweight.
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240 series production number is so minuscule, no commercial interest to mock it in China.
M8/9 is the only ones made in significant numbers to mock their batteries, so far.
If where is any common battery across M, Q and SL this might be the chance, if not already.

But best digiLeica made in this regards is Q. Non-proprietary batteries.
 
Anyone looking at this objectively has every right to wonder.

Leica is a premium brand, charging (and receiving) premium prices for their offerings. Good for them! The brand is iconic and has been around for a hundred years.

But the *very* least they can do for their customers who have freely decided that acquiring one of their products is of more value than the substantial cash they have in their pockets (or in their credit account) is to not create an artificial shortage of a critical component required to use such products.

I'm not making an accusation that this shortage was intentional, but it most certainly could have been anticipated/prevented or at least mitigated, and even if that weren't possible, some accommodation could be made through their dealer network so customers are not in the position of spending outrageous amounts of money on an auction site.

Customers should not have to accidentally discover from online posts that they can get in line by ordering from Leica parts! But why force customers to order from Leica parts? Get the dealers in the loop, after all, those people behind the counter are the face of the company to the customer base!

Further, why not publish an official statement from the company? This no doubt would have been helpful, if only to assuage their customer base for goodwill purposes, even if the product delays were nonetheless unavoidable.

They've had months in which to do this...online posts go back to mid-2024...

Once a company finds a customer who is willing to part with substantially more money for a niche product instead of going for a mass market CanikonSony, it only makes sense to put in at least a *little bit of effort* to keep that customer happy. Isn't it easier to keep a customer than it is to find a new one?

Or has Leica in reality just become completely arrogant?
 
I like Godfrey's closing point here.

I see my M3 smiling from the back of the closet at all of this. That camera was made by a very different company than Leica has become.

Following this discussion having only learned this past week of the "battery shortage", I'd taken something of a hiatus. For the first time in 40 years not particularly excited about needing to have a newest Leica M, I'd just decided that I was content to hold on to my M9M and M10 for the foreseeable future. They're still better tools than I am a photographer. I am smarter now, I know what I need and why I do photography; why the IIIf and the the M made sense to me initially. I just want a digital camera that is simple, gets out of the way, but turns on when I hit the on-off!

To the thread, I have already made a bit of noise and hope that others will as well to see that Leica steps up and stands by the products that upon release they touted as the best which should include built to last! For now I remain optimistic as I also have a few batteries here for each camera.

I can't imagine the M10 or the 240 cameras being rendered obsolete by the company that produced them so few years ago.

David
 
JeffS7444 said:
Now Godfrey, that sort of dismissive attitude isn't constructive: Does anyone seriously believe that Leica can't simply order a few more batteries at say, $10/ea from Panasonic Energy (Wuxi) Co. Ltd., and have them readily available most of the time? To me, the frequent product shortages look like a classic play used by the luxury-products sector. Do I blame them for playing the game? No, not really, because I think whatever market they might have once had serving pros mostly died along with the profession. But that doesn't mean I can't roll my eyes when I see price increases which seem to roughly track the stock market :D
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My very jaundiced view is that Leitz does not want to sell a high volume product. They are happy to sell a few high markup items to a few folks willing to pay for them. What is left of the pro market has pretty much moved away. High burst rate, in focus, IBIS, high density images are not what Leica offers. They sell the mystique that the owners are budding HCB's. And while they still make good cameras so do a lot of other folks. I am rapidly beginning to believe that Leica is an expensive has-been with a romantic history. Yes, they do produce great images. They are not alone. And other manufacturers will fix your camera with dispatch rather than the "Send it to us and when we get around to it we'll look at it and tell you what we are offering."

Look at the tests of cameras alongside of the comparable Leica and it becomes apparent that Leica is better if you want it to be. More objectively, in my opinion, it is pretty much the same. I recently posted a Q3 43 - A7CR comparison. Small image difference, not always in :Leica's favor and the Sony has a lot more bells and whistles. And it focuses well. An M11 is ~ $13K with lens for a manual focus non-stabilized camera. OK, good images. It is not alone. For the price of an M11 + lens you can have an X2D plus lens. No brainer.

So while the battery problem for the M240 is irksome at best it is indicative of a company that just does not put much value on customer service. QED
 
Just another example of Leica customer support. Q3 batteries are US$200 for 2200mAh. X2D batteries are US$100 for 3400mAh. Can it be any plainer?
 
dave lackey said:
Surely there are talented members on RFF who can refurbish an old battery pack with fresh batteries. Or maybe not?
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I have opened many lithium batteries, but not this one. Shouldn't be too difficult for someone with proper tools and experience to replace the raw battery pack (being careful with the embedded circuitry) if the plastic enclosure can be opened without damaging it.

For those that aren't aware, many of these batteries, including those that run power tools such as drills, impact wrenches, and the like, have circuitry in them which will prevent them from being recharged if the battery has been drained to too low a level. Note, I have no idea if this is the case with the Leica batteries...

I've restored some of these to working order by opening up the battery, bypassing the circuitry from the raw battery pack, and charging the battery pack directly (wired charger with alligator clips.) Once the battery pack reaches a minimum charge threshold, the circuitry will then allow the pack to be recharged again using the standard charger, so it can be reassembled and used normally.

Note that often the manufacturers will use tamper-evident screws to assemble...so opening it up will of course void any warranty.

Moral of the story, if your lithium powered drill/leaf blower/chain saw, etc. uses one of these 'smart' batteries, and the battery 'appears' to be dead, it may not actually be! You might be able to resurrect it. There are youtube vids that show how.

Some may have thoughts about manufacturers that embed circuitry that forces users to buy new batteries even if the raw battery pack itself is in perfectly good rechargeable condition. Even if it's not able to get to 100% 'new' capacity, it can still be very usable.
 
splitimageview said:
I have opened many lithium batteries, but not this one. Shouldn't be too difficult for someone with proper tools and experience to replace the raw battery pack (being careful with the embedded circuitry) if the plastic enclosure can be opened without damaging it.

For those that aren't aware, many of these batteries, including those that run power tools such as drills, impact wrenches, and the like, have circuitry in them which will prevent them from being recharged if the battery has been drained to too low a level. Note, I have no idea if this is the case with the Leica batteries...

I've restored some of these to working order by opening up the battery, bypassing the circuitry from the raw battery pack, and charging the battery pack directly (wired charger with alligator clips.) Once the battery pack reaches a minimum charge threshold, the circuitry will then allow the pack to be recharged again using the standard charger, so it can be reassembled and used normally.

Note that often the manufacturers will use tamper-evident screws to assemble...so opening it up will of course void any warranty.

Moral of the story, if your lithium powered drill/leaf blower/chain saw, etc. uses one of these 'smart' batteries, and the battery 'appears' to be dead, it may not actually be! You might be able to resurrect it. There are youtube vids that show how.

Some may have thoughts about manufacturers that embed circuitry that forces users to buy new batteries even if the raw battery pack itself is in perfectly good rechargeable condition. Even if it's not able to get to 100% 'new' capacity, it can still be very usable.
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Thanks for that insight… batteries for my Leica S 006 are $280. Not sure if they are discontinued yet…

If I bought one spare battery for all my digital cameras, appliances and tools around the house, the total expenditure would be ridiculous, and here I am contemplating a new electric lawnmower, edger and blower.☹️

Sign of the times…right?
 
dave lackey said:
Thanks for that insight… batteries for my Leica S 006 are $280. Not sure if they are discontinued yet…
Click to expand...
in stock at B&H. Absurd price...

dave lackey said:
f I bought one spare battery for all my digital cameras, appliances and tools around the house, the total expenditure would be ridiculous, and here I am contemplating a new electric lawnmower, edger and blower.☹️
Click to expand...
Can you acquire all those tools that use a common battery? :)
 
boojum said:
My very jaundiced view is that Leitz does not want to sell a high volume product. They are happy to sell a few high markup items to a few folks willing to pay for them. What is left of the pro market has pretty much moved away. High burst rate, in focus, IBIS, high density images are not what Leica offers. They sell the mystique that the owners are budding HCB's. And while they still make good cameras so do a lot of other folks. I am rapidly beginning to believe that Leica is an expensive has-been with a romantic history. Yes, they do produce great images. They are not alone. And other manufacturers will fix your camera with dispatch rather than the "Send it to us and when we get around to it we'll look at it and tell you what we are offering."

Look at the tests of cameras alongside of the comparable Leica and it becomes apparent that Leica is better if you want it to be. More objectively, in my opinion, it is pretty much the same. I recently posted a Q3 43 - A7CR comparison. Small image difference, not always in :Leica's favor and the Sony has a lot more bells and whistles. And it focuses well. An M11 is ~ $13K with lens for a manual focus non-stabilized camera. OK, good images. It is not alone. For the price of an M11 + lens you can have an X2D plus lens. No brainer.

So while the battery problem for the M240 is irksome at best it is indicative of a company that just does not put much value on customer service. QED
Click to expand...
D'oh, how could I have overlooked such an obvious possibility as this: As long as there is sufficient demand, Leica may be perfectly happy to continue supplying batteries for those older cameras, because margins on said batteries are likely some of the juiciest, low-hanging fruit at their disposal, and best of all, batteries wear out and need periodic replacements: It's a gift that keeps on giving. So forget what I said earlier about them wanting to sell more M11s: M11s have significant manufacturing and support costs.

As for Leica's brand image, never underestimate it's value!
 
We are caught in the printer ink, electric toothbrush head replacement and battery loop. It's just an awful deal. I am grateful that 1) Sony has a standard battery through a bunch of cameras, and 2) that the Sony and some Leica batteries are made in China for aftermarket sale.

I know I whine a lot about this but I do not like being hosed and it is even worse when I get hosed by a company which has such a flagrant disregard for how customers feel. It's insulting. Bad enough the Leica prices. OK, all but my last Leica were bought used. And I can get just about what I paid for them if I want to sell them so I get to use them basically for nothing. Bu that is not a result of Leica policy, that is market dynamic. It's like the old expression of getting screwed and not kissed after. I can only speak for myself but dealing with the Trolls of Wetzlar is not a lot of fun for me.
 
over time there have been sporadic shortages of genuine leica m9 / monochrom
batteries - each time I think ill never find another -
my monochrom came with a battery embossed m8 in the plastic - it still works -
I have 2 more genuine leica batteries each purchased when the shortages freed up
they were about $160 each - I thought that was a lot - but thought perhaps the
leica batteries would be better for an older (monochrom) digital leica - didn't want
to take a chance on a knockoff battery although everyone says its ok
 
enasniearth said:
over time there have been sporadic shortages of genuine leica m9 / monochrom
batteries - each time I think ill never find another -
my monochrom came with a battery embossed m8 in the plastic - it still works -
I have 2 more genuine leica batteries each purchased when the shortages freed up
they were about $160 each - I thought that was a lot - but thought perhaps the
leica batteries would be better for an older (monochrom) digital leica - didn't want
to take a chance on a knockoff battery although everyone says its ok
Click to expand...

I use aftermarket M8/M9 without issue.
 
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JeffS7444 said:
Now Godfrey, that sort of dismissive attitude isn't constructive: Does anyone seriously believe that Leica can't simply order a few more batteries at say, $10/ea from Panasonic Energy (Wuxi) Co. Ltd., and have them readily available most of the time? To me, the frequent product shortages look like a classic play used by the luxury-products sector. Do I blame them for playing the game? No, not really, because I think whatever market they might have once had serving pros mostly died along with the profession. But that doesn't mean I can't roll my eyes when I see price increases which seem to roughly track the stock market :D
Click to expand...

I have no idea what the battery shortage issue is derivative of, and I bet that no one else on this forum does either. It seems rather deprecatory to suggest that the solution might be so simple. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Far as I'm aware, none of us are on the board of directors of either Leica or Leica USA.

You guys must all be incredibly bored with nothing to do other than keep restating the obvious fact that, right now, batteries for M240 and M10 models are not available for sale in the USA. I think we've all heard that.

Get back to making photographs. It's better for your mind.

G


Wreath - Santa Clara 2024
Leica M10 Monochrom + Elmar 5.0cm f/3.5
ISO 160, f/3.5, 1/60​
 
Well, I've looked in here three or four times today as I've been working at my desk on other things.
All I've seen is "Leica blah blah this" and "Leica blah blah that" from the usual suspects.

I've posted three comments, and looked/commented on one or two photos posted on another forum. Too busy to participate in the scathing discussion of how messed up Leica is.

G
 
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