jaredangle
Photojournalist
Back in the pre-AI days before they introduced it in the later F2 variants 😛
AI Cameras
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Alpsman
Well-known
I confess; it's a modern Nikon F Apollo . . .
Alpsman
Well-known
And if you still fail, then either someone else was to blame, or even better, the computer was to blame.
bulevardi
Well-known
The question is: do you like the photos or not? Not knowing if they're made with AI or not.
We like to do photography for the process in how we see, capture and create things.
Now the same results are made otherwise- without our way of doing things- we tend to dislike it.
Imagine these same photos from Noemia Prada were made with a real rangefinder and film and manual development. Would you still dislike the results?
bulevardi
Well-known
You need to know what to ask, as a prompt, in order to let AI create something.
Someone who doesn't know about how to make photos, won't be easily be able to create through it.
As Noemia Prada explains:
yossi
Well-known
Photography means "drawing with light" with a camera/light-sensitive media. AI generated images are NOT photography. They are fake. Period.
(If those images were made with real camera/film, I certainly think they are quite nice.)
bulevardi
Well-known
In that case the person showcasing these photos on Instagram should call it "images" instead of photos.
That's what people share on social media, images. Whether these images it are paintings, drawings, photos ....
It all depends on the tools you use I guess... can you call a drawing only a drawing when it's made with paper and pencyl, or also when someone made it with a mouse or sketchpad?
Or someone who makes sculptures with a hammer an chisel, while someone else manually draws it digitally and prints the 'sculpture' it with a 3D-printer.
It's not the same process, but the result can be the same.
The thing that matters is if the person who creates it is satisfied with the process or not.
I love to make my photos as authentic and manual as possible.
But I can understand next generations won't do this process anymore like we do now. That's evolution of our technologies.
I don't make fire anymore with flints, I use matches or a lighter, can I still call it the same 'fire'?
yossi
Well-known
We can agree to disagree. I rest my case.
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
For what it's worth, I used to have a friend who wouldn't even call the images produced by digital cameras "photographs", as he argued they were just digital images, and there was no actual "drawing with light", as you'd get by traditional processes.
AI generated slop is even further than that. It's an image that's been digitally cobbled together from countless stolen images used as "training data", often presented surrepticiously as "real", but the only thing real about it is the moral, environmental, and social issues it's creating.
Frankly, the second someone tells me they use Midjourney or the like in any capacity, they go so far down in my estimation that I usually ignore anything else that comes out of their mouth. I don't care how pretty they can make the end result. It's a god-awful technology, and I'll be glad when the bubble pops.
AI generated slop is even further than that. It's an image that's been digitally cobbled together from countless stolen images used as "training data", often presented surrepticiously as "real", but the only thing real about it is the moral, environmental, and social issues it's creating.
Frankly, the second someone tells me they use Midjourney or the like in any capacity, they go so far down in my estimation that I usually ignore anything else that comes out of their mouth. I don't care how pretty they can make the end result. It's a god-awful technology, and I'll be glad when the bubble pops.
bulevardi
Well-known
I know people with the latest Nikon Z, it has advanced AI-algorithms for subject recognition and focuses in real-time.
I've seen it in action, you really can't miss a moment or shoot something wrong, moving animals are shot razor sharp.
Every dumbass can shoot a perfect image with this.
I know even Leica introduced such technology (into their Q-series).
I sometimes feel I'm much behind when shooting the old fashioned way and as a result I have much wrong images while others stand out.
However, I feel I'm having a lot of pleasure shooting the old fashioned way (I'm a slow photographer).
I've had the opportunity to work with the newest material, but I think I can't find my pleasure in it.
But I have to admit that if I'd work as a professional, I'd try to get my job easier and faster, to win time and money. I know people who have to process hundreds of photos a day, I won't be able to do what they do, as a slow photographer.
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
"AI" in this sense is really just repackaged machine learning; it has nothing to do with the Generative AI being used to churn out slop all across the internet. I suspect we'll see companies like Nikon stop using the term AI in this way once the current AI bubble pops.
Other than that, I agree - it's impressive, but when a camera can accurately calculate exposure and recognise subjects for perfect focusing (if it can - I still find autofocus too easily confused in many scenarios), what exactly is the photographer doing? If all you have to do is be there and push a button, the next step is inevitably to not have to be there at all (as I pointed out in comment/post #26). Sit at your computer or swipe away at your phone until Midjourney or Sora spits out a "pretty" thing for you to ooh at for a second until you write another prompt.
I'm happy being slow, thanks. The process is half the fun.
Dogman
Veteran
Photography, the photography I have always loved and always practiced, involves images of real people, places, things and events. Creations from whole cloth that are called "photographs" are an insult.
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agentlossing
Well-known
It doesn't matter whether we like AI images, because all AI images can produce is a product. The world tells us we need more products, but that's a lie. We have more than enough images. We have a huge surplus of imagery.
What matters is human beings going through the process of learning and understanding craft, of obtaining mastery, or at least gain respect for process. We need to treat the human experience, not provide humanity with more noise.
The ends don't justify the means, the process is what's important. This is why everyone using AI to write their emails is missing the point: engage with language, struggle to express yourself in the right way, learn mastery - even if it's simply over tone in a business email.
Being satisfied with a result that has no human effort go into it is hollow, and is a societal sickness.
What matters is human beings going through the process of learning and understanding craft, of obtaining mastery, or at least gain respect for process. We need to treat the human experience, not provide humanity with more noise.
The ends don't justify the means, the process is what's important. This is why everyone using AI to write their emails is missing the point: engage with language, struggle to express yourself in the right way, learn mastery - even if it's simply over tone in a business email.
Being satisfied with a result that has no human effort go into it is hollow, and is a societal sickness.
Alpsman
Well-known
When I bought my Nikon D700 + AF 50/1.4 lens, I did a "test."
At a wild drinking party on a riverbank, I set the camera to full auto (shotgun mode) and didn't look through the viewfinder for a single shot, didn't time the exposure, and didn't check the focus.
I just had the camera strap around my right wrist and shot one-handed.
Day and night, standing, sitting, or lying on the ground.
I needed my left hand for eating, drinking, and smoking.
I was pleasantly surprised by what this setup was capable of.
Almost all the pictures were correctly exposed and sharp. Incredible.
And no, I'm not showing these pictures here, to protect the people I photographed. 😎
sojournerphoto
Veteran
This exactly. AI goes far deeper but this explains it succinctly. AI is being used to condition us to accept a simulacrum in place of reality. Living in a post truth world does not mean that truth has ended, just that no one recognises or values it any longer. That is a desperate state for us to be in.
p.giannakis
Pan Giannakis
I feel that we are expected to be able to catch up with anything Ai-related - somehow you become irrelevant if you miss this great opportunity to jump on the back wagon.
Its not me saying that, i have a lot of posts coming up my social media like the one below. You need to be a great artist to create Ai pictures, those you argue against it are met with a "thank you for the effort to remain irrelevant" comment.
Do we actually need to be able to use Ai cameras? I haven't used Ai before and somehow I am happy with the pictures I take. I don't use digital either and I am ok with that too.
Ai is a growing market and as with any growing markets, first you create a need and then you create the product to fill it
Its not me saying that, i have a lot of posts coming up my social media like the one below. You need to be a great artist to create Ai pictures, those you argue against it are met with a "thank you for the effort to remain irrelevant" comment.
Do we actually need to be able to use Ai cameras? I haven't used Ai before and somehow I am happy with the pictures I take. I don't use digital either and I am ok with that too.
Ai is a growing market and as with any growing markets, first you create a need and then you create the product to fill it
luuca
Well-known
I think there could be a bright side of this story.
Maybe this AI images and videos proliferation on the web will be the beginning of the death of social plarforms as we know them (tiktok, instagram, etc...), or at least a downsizing of their diffusion.
What's the meaning of doom scrolling between hundreds of accounts when you know that probably the 90% of posts are fake or AI generated?
Maybe this AI images and videos proliferation on the web will be the beginning of the death of social plarforms as we know them (tiktok, instagram, etc...), or at least a downsizing of their diffusion.
What's the meaning of doom scrolling between hundreds of accounts when you know that probably the 90% of posts are fake or AI generated?
bulevardi
Well-known
No of course not. We live the way we want to live, as long as we're able to make our own choices.
We go from point A to B with the process we want. Whether it's by car, public transport, bicycle or as a pedestrian.
It's not because there's a faster way, it's a better, cheaper, safer or a more ecologic way.
I'm more a pedestrian and public transport type of guy, but I also do ride the bike or car for some purposes. Some I prefer to avoid, some I prefer to do more, depending on the situation and location etc... We don't have to be black or white, we can make a mix in our personal process of doing things.
And there's no one to judge us on that.
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
Whoever wrote the text in that screenshot can get in the bin. Everyone I've seen talking like that is truly one of the worst people I've ever "met".
(As an aside, I saw someone say the other week that they were getting bored of "writing prompts" to generate these images and they were asking if there was a way to simplify that as well. Welcome to the race to the bottom.)
And as for this:
I don't see enough people acknowledging that the folks pushing Generative AI are the same people who were pushing cryptocurrency 10 years ago and NFTs 5 years ago. It's one long train of pyramid schemes hidden behind pointless technology - the only difference is that this one has actually got people excited because it lets them feel like "artists" with no work or skill. And that'd be fine if it wasn't eroding people's faith in reality while actively burning the planet to do so.
bulevardi
Well-known
It's ironic and frightening at the same time to know that we've created AI based on how our own brains and minds work.
We feed it with tons of data, ideas, and experiences.
Just as our brains have been filled with experiences, memories, data, and so on since we're born. The connections we have made through experiences and trauma.
The chatter in your head, the little voice you hear. Our mind is constantly creating ideas based on what's already in there. We make decisions and conclusions based on what we've learned and our past experiences. You are what you put into it first.
If we want AI to generate some other results, we need to feed it with different data, and other algorithms to generate other connections.
Since general population now knows how AI works, we start to see how our brain works. And if we can change results of AI, we can also cure our brain. How we can get rid of bad connections in our brains, bad habits, addictions, ... We'll find better ways for Cognitive Behavioral Therapy to treat mental disorders.
First test it on a server environment, afterwards to treat humans.
But... there's a saying "you are what you eat", but don't be fooled by a statement from Sadhguru that you will start walking crooked if you only eat bananas. ;-)
