Help me fight my GAS once and for all.

Streetmaniac

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Hello to the team. I posted some time ago a post about leica m2 and 28mm lens. Luckily i tried this combination before buying it blind and i realised i cant see the edges of the frame except if i move my eye around. If thats about the leica experience i will pass. At the store i found the leica m2 there was another interesting camera, the hexar af. I wanted to try this camera for a long time and it is light, not so big not so small and i could see the framelines really easy. I could do the compromise and go to 35mm but this camera is old and i have heard a lot about its failing electronics. Is there anyone who can repair it in Europe if something happens ? The cost was 650€ so i dont want it to brick and not being serviceable. Are there any good alternatives on film that dont exceed 1000€ ?
 
What is it you are after, the M2 + 28mm and the Hexar AF seem quite different in functionality. Is it just to spend up to 1000 euros on something rangefinderesque that uses film? Not too big or too small? Interchangeable lenses not required?

To cure Hexar AF GAS try these:


 
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What is it you are after, the M2 + 28mm and the Hexar AF seem quite different in functionality. Is it just to spend up to 1000 euros on something rangefinderesque that uses film? Not too big or too small? Interchangeable lenses not required?

To cure Hexar AF GAS I recommend these:


When i tried the leica m2 with the 28mm i was about to find a camera that is full manual and use a great lens on it. I have spent 1 year with 28mm, one with 35mm and many with 50mm. 50mm is to me at the moment a bit boring since i changed from abstract photography to street photography. I like a lot 28mm for crowded cities and 35 for not so crowded. 28 is more challenging and rarely very rewarding. 35 is more to the way i see things after i stayed a long with every focal length, since i can keep the layering of the 28mm and also some of the tightness of the 50, but with its own character, not just an in between focal length. I am a hobbyist and dont earn money from photography, just shoot 10-25 rolls every year, hoping to go to 30 this upcoming year. I only need one lens, either 28mm or 35mm. At the time i have no camera so i will definitely get one but am not really in the mood to change it after 3-4 months or so. This thing has made me sick, every camera is nice if someone uses it and can see good things. Idealy i would like a small one with a great lens, repairable, with film of course, with a nice viewfinder where i can see everything with my glasses without moving my eye around. I could also live with an slr if it had the things i want. I liked the hexar af because it was light, small with nice viewfinder and from what i have seen a great lens. If an slr lens with a camea comes close to lens quality-size i would be more than happy to get this one instead and pay the rest on film.
 
Hello to the team. I posted some time ago a post about leica m2 and 28mm lens. Luckily i tried this combination before buying it blind and i realised i cant see the edges of the frame except if i move my eye around. If thats about the leica experience i will pass. At the store i found the leica m2 there was another interesting camera, the hexar af. I wanted to try this camera for a long time and it is light, not so big not so small and i could see the framelines really easy. I could do the compromise and go to 35mm but this camera is old and i have heard a lot about its failing electronics. Is there anyone who can repair it in Europe if something happens ? The cost was 650€ so i dont want it to brick and not being serviceable. Are there any good alternatives on film that dont exceed 1000€ ?

There are no 28mm framelines on the M2, you need at least M4-P.

Hexars die like crazy, you may be lucky but I'd give them 50/50 chance to survive a year of regular use.


PS you can't cure the GAS with another purchase.
 
Hello to the team. I posted some time ago a post about leica m2 and 28mm lens. Luckily i tried this combination before buying it blind and i realised i cant see the edges of the frame except if i move my eye around. If thats about the leica experience i will pass. At the store i found the leica m2 there was another interesting camera, the hexar af. I wanted to try this camera for a long time and it is light, not so big not so small and i could see the framelines really easy. I could do the compromise and go to 35mm but this camera is old and i have heard a lot about its failing electronics. Is there anyone who can repair it in Europe if something happens ? The cost was 650€ so i dont want it to brick and not being serviceable. Are there any good alternatives on film that dont exceed 1000€ ?
The M2 does not support 28mm frame lines; 28mm was not an in-built frameline set until the M4-P. The best Leica M for use with a 28mm lens is the Leica M6TTL 0.58x as the lower viewfinder magnification lets you see to the 28mm FoV easily and with room for glasses wearers beyond that. Unless you're willing to fit an accessory viewfinder. I wear glasses too, so when I'm using nearly any other M aside from the M6TTL 0.58x, I fit an accessory 28mm viewfinder for comfortable framing.

My current M film bodies are the M4-2 (supports 35, 50, 90, and 135 mm frame lines in a 0.72x viewfinder) and M6TTL 0.85x (supports 35, 50, 90, 135 mm frame lines with more magnification which nets a larger focusing patch and slightly better focusing accuracy). With both of these, I fit accessory finders for lenses shorter than 35mm.

It seems you want to stick with a film M or other film camera.... BUT if you go to a digital M, pick the M typ 240, 246, M10 series, or M11 series bodies. With all of these, you can fit an accessory optical finder if you prefer that way of viewing, or use a Visoflex EVF. Once you have the latter, the optical finder framelines don't really matter at all because you're viewing through-the-lens like an SLR, but you have the Leica M body form factor instead of an SLR form factor body. (Or just eschew the optical viewfinder entirely and go for the M EV1, which conveniently puts the EVF in the body; nothing to add.)

(Since I have the M10-R and M10 Monochrome, and the Visoflex 020, it might seem redundant to buy an M EV1, but I suspect my next Leica purchase will be for that since its built in EVF is much more convenient. Of course I'd still have to compromise in yet another dimension: the Visoflex 020 on either of the M10s nets a tiltable viewfinder head so makes it easy to work with when the camera is going to be low to the ground or on a copy stand...)

I like my choices of M4-2, M6TTL 0.85x, M10-R, and M10 Monochrome. I know nothing of the Hexar AF other than what I've read on line, so I have no opinion of it or comparison with it. I had Leicaflex and Leica R equipment for a time, still have several lenses from that system that I adapt to the M (and to Hasselblad X). The only 35mm film SLRs that approach Leica M body size are the Olympus OM-1/2 and Pentax MX/ME as far as I recollect, but they're not capable of using Leica M lenses due to much greater mount registration (body depth from mount to film).

If you want to use Leica M lenses, don't like the M series frame line optics, and will use a digital body, you have more options. The Sony E mount and Nikon Zf mount are good options; there are others as well.

Forget about GAS. Just buy what you want to shoot with, whatever compels you to make photographs, and buy that. Then go out and make photographs.

G
 
Bear in mind several of the M bodies with 28mm frames have exactly the same viewfinder as those without 28mm frames.

For example, an M4-P has a 0.72x mag viewfinder with 28mm framelines. This is exactly the same vf magnification as the M2, which doesn't have 28mm frames.

Since there is only a very thin border between the viewfinder edge and the 28mm framelines, there is no reason one can't use the the entire M2 viewfinder for 28mm framing, negating the need for an accessory viewfinder.

This applies to all M cameras with 0.72x viewfinders that don't have 28mm frames (M2, M4, M4-2.)

Accessory viewfinders are always an option for more eye relief, higher magnification, etc.

The Hexar RF has 0.6x mag and 28mm frames, like the 0.58x viewfinder Leicas, the 28mm frames are easy and spacious.
 
I'm also wary of cameras w electronics that could turn into expensive bricks. Accessory wideangle viewfinders on rangefinders are a joy....no more peering into corners of the viewfinder window. I use my 21mm a lot & lately have used the 28 as an all around lens..... Have a look at the Leica CL..... if you have a budget ceiling.
I have a real soft spot for the tiny 28mm lenses from Voigtlander & Canon.
IMG_6854.JPGIMG_8291.JPG
 
Bear in mind several of the M bodies with 28mm frames have exactly the same viewfinder as those without 28mm frames.

For example, an M4-P has a 0.72x mag viewfinder with 28mm framelines. This is exactly the same vf magnification as the M2, which doesn't have 28mm frames.

Since there is only a very thin border between the viewfinder edge and the 28mm framelines, there is no reason one can't use the the entire M2 viewfinder for 28mm framing, negating the need for an accessory viewfinder.

This applies to all M cameras with 0.72x viewfinders that don't have 28mm frames (M2, M4, M4-2.)

Accessory viewfinders are always an option for more eye relief, higher magnification, etc.

The Hexar RF has 0.6x mag and 28mm frames, like the 0.58x viewfinder Leicas, the 28mm frames are easy and spacious.
Yes ... the amount of "extra" space offered by the 28mm framelines in the 0.72x finder depends on whether you wear glasses, the shape of those glasses, the shape of your nose, etc.

(bolded) This is the big boon of using dedicated accessory finders.

I have accessory finders for 15, 21, 24, 28, 35, 50, 75, 90, and 135 mm, collected over the years. I don't have one that is an exact match for the 10mm lens, but the 15mm does well enough (honestly, for such a wide lens, I spent most of my time with just a two-axis level in the accessory shoe and just point it... ).

G
 
Yes ... the amount of "extra" space offered by the 28mm framelines in the 0.72x finder depends on whether you wear glasses, the shape of those glasses, the shape of your nose, etc.


that variance being the distance from the eyepiece to the eye. 🙂

With 28mm frames being very close to the edge of the viewfinder on those M bodies with 0.72x mag, the edge of any 0.72x viewfinder is close enough so really no need for 28mm framelines at all.
 
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that variance being the distance from the eyepiece to the eye. 🙂
With 28mm frames being very close to the edge of the viewfinder on those M bodies with 0.72x mag, the edge of any 0.72x viewfinder is close enough so really no need for 28mm framelines at all.

Without my glasses on, looking through my M10-M (which has a .72x magnification viewfinder and 28-90, 50-75, 35-135 frame lines) ... I fit a 28mm lens and, without my glasses on, scroll the focusing ring from infinity to closest focus. I can see the frame lines shift towards the lens to show the parallax compensation. I do the same with my glasses on and, even then, I can see the parallax compensation working, albeit the free surrounding space is a good bit smaller.

Thus I cannot agree that there's truly "no need for 28mm framelines at all". They serve a useful purpose of illustrating a more accurate framing guide, even if the space around them is minimal and even if the parallax compensation is only modestly accurate. I would say, rather, that I could do without them and estimate FoV framing with the whole .72x viewfinder field ... sure. I do this with other cameras that don't have parallax compensation pretty easily after a few frames use, but it's particularly useful to have parallax compensation if you're shooting film because you can't check the actual framing you achieved until long after the shooting session is over and done.

G
 
Precise framing is by no means the forte of Leica rangefinders, if that's a priority, there are always SLRs with 100% viewfinder coverage. 😀 Otherwise using the entire view is sufficient.

Framelines+Compressed.gif

gif courtesy of this site
 
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Precise framing is by no means the forte of Leica rangefinders, if that's a priority, there are always SLRs with 100% viewfinder coverage. 😀 Otherwise using the entire view is sufficient.

View attachment 4883882

gif courtesy of this site

Personally the 50/75 frame set bothered me most.....& happily sold my MP and went back to the M4. In my opinion, the M2 is still the king of clean viewfinders.
 
The M2 is made for the 35, literally. It has the perfect finder. I agree with 38Deardorff re accessory finders. I had a 21 on my M2 at the weekend. I nearly always use the SBOOI 50 finder on a Barnack. But with the M9 I’m so used to 28 I don’t bother with the accessory 28 finder. Like Godfrey I will occasionally look for a 28 frame line (I can only see one at a time) but I do this rarely.

I love the Hexar AF and I have FP4 in it and took a shot with it a few days ago. Mine developed the well known shutter button problem and with the help of photos of the process here on RFF I took off the top plate and repaired the button. It was fiddly but doable. That was many years ago.

The engineers who designed this camera were ingenious. At one point someone posted that the autofocus seems to know what you want to focus on. Seemed far fetched. But when you see the negatives you think yes, that may be right. I learnt to treat the Hexar’s AF like the M6’s meter: stop second guessing and just take the shot.

 
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Idealy i would like a small one with a great lens, repairable, with film of course, with a nice viewfinder where i can see everything with my glasses without moving my eye around. I could also live with an slr if it had the things i want
If you need to see 28mm frames with glasses (or the entire vf) your best bet is the lower mag viewfinder cameras if you’re looking at rangefinders (some Bessas, Hexar RF, or the much more expensive 0.58x M bodies.)

Many SLRs are also repairable and good options, Nikon FM with the 28/2.8 AIS comes to mind, for a lot less than the budget mentioned in the first post.
 
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