Is PC-TEA a good idea for my only film developer ?

[MarkWalberg]

Although my Nikon ZF is fun, I’d like to use some of my film cameras again. I haven’t developed film for a decade, and not that much then.

I thought about starting off with XTOL. However, I read that a lot of commercial developers have changed over the years. I’m looking for something that is easy to use, stable enough for intermittent use, with good image qualities.

XTOL would probably be fine, but I read that Patrick Gainer’s PC-TEA is similar in imaging, easy to make, even cheaper than XTOL, and the stock solution is stable enough for intermittent use.

Seems like a good idea to me. But, since I haven’t done it, does anyone with more experience have advice on whether this is a good choice.

If so, where do you advise to source the propylene glycol and the triethanolamine?

Mark W

 

[Freakscene]

No. PC-TEA is too alkaline, and gives grainier negatives than Xtol. It lasts well but not as long as you might think (mine went off after about 9-18 months depending on the batch). I talked to Patrick Gainer about it a lot before he died, and ultimately he said that he just liked playing with development chemistry, and that there probably were better developers.

If you want a liquid ascorbate developer and can access Moersch developers, Moersch ECO lasts 2 years in the bottle Eco Film Developer | Wolfgang Moersch Photochemie and produces much finer grain than PC-TEA.

Adox XT-3 is better than current Xtol. The best things in life are analog | ADOX XT-3 Developer

If you just want something bullet proof try Adox HC-110 PRO ADOX HC-110 PRO ''Original Syrup'' Made in Germany 500 ml conc. - fotoimpex.com analogue photography which is very similar to the original Kodak HC-110 syrup (Kodak’s current HC-110 product produces negatives that look the same but the concentrate is thinner and doesn’t last as long). HC-110 has few flaws except that the grain might be finer if you optimise your film-developer combination, and the tonality is distinctive and might not suit you. The syrup should last decades if stored with a little care.

If you do decide to go with PC-TEA, you can get PG and TEA from Soap Making Supplies | Cosmetic Ingredients if you live in the US.

 

[Godfrey]

I know little of PC-TEA.

But what you choose to rely upon as your standard developer is really just a matter of what works for you in the way you want your photos to look. You can either pick something that lasts well as a stock solution used infrequently over time, or you can pick something that works well but is in concentrate form, which you mix up fresh to use on the infrequent occasions when you use it.

In this vein, I standardized on Kodak HC-110 more than 20 years ago and bought a pint-sized bottle of concentrate then, for something like $30. I process by mixing up a fresh batch of HC-110 working solution (about 1 to 10 ml per batch, for a 250 ml bottle of working solution). Each batch processes up to 4-5 rolls of film, depending on format and film area, and how many rolls I process close together in time. After all this time, I'm about 2/3 of the way through that same bottle of developer concentrate. And Iike the qualities of the negatives it produces.

It's not the only way to work this equation, but it is how I've done it and I'm satisfied with my results.

G

 

[Mcary]

I'm currently using Black, White and Green from Flic Film to develop my B&W White film as I wanted something with a long stable shelf life due the fact that some months I may only shoot 1 or 2 rolls of 35mm or 120 film, the active developer is Vitamin C. so far I've used it with results I'm pleased with with several different types of B&W film. Comparing scans of 35mm Tmax-100 in ADOX XT-3 stock and Black, White and Green I would say that the results are very similar.

 

[Freakscene]

I'm currently using Black, White and Green from Flic Film to develop my B&W White film as I wanted something with a long stable shelf life due the fact that some months I may only shoot 1 or 2 rolls of 35mm or 120 film, the active developer is Vitamin C. so far I've used it with results I'm pleased with with several different types of B&W film. Comparing scans of 35mm Tmax-100 in ADOX XT-3 stock and Black, White and Green I would say that the results are very similar.

I haven’t tried this.
pH : No data available.
Ugh.

If it is unbuffered, it is probably very similar to PC-TEA. If it is buffered, it will be more like Xtol. A good test, if someone is willing to try, is to measure the pH of the concentrate and of the diluted developer. A lot of buffered solutions change pH with dilution whereas undiluted ones do not. But it’s also not universal.

That might be a good product to try.

 

[sojournerphoto]

I e got some PC-TEA I made up. Agree with Freakscene as I also like playing with chemicals. You don’t need Propylene Glycol for PC-Tea, but it’s a good way to store phenidone for future use, or as a basis to make up buffered devs.

However, Adox XT3 is my preferred dev. My only concern, based on adverse XTOL experience is its life. Freakscene may have info on this?

Noting that if you get into making buffered phenidone-ascorbate developer you are trying to reinvent XTOL anyway!

 

[Freakscene]

I e got some PC-TEA I made up. Agree with Freakscene as I also like playing with chemicals. You don’t need Propylene Glycol for PC-Tea, but it’s a good way to store phenidone for future use, or as a basis to make up buffered devs.

However, Adox XT3 is my preferred dev. My only concern, based on adverse XTOL experience is its life. Freakscene may have info on this?

I don’t develop that much film anymore.

Adox says:
Once mixed XT-3 should be filled in dark glass bottles filled to the top or topped up with protective gas (alternatively throw in clean glass marbles to taise the level of liquid). Prepared like this the stock solution should keep at least 6 weeks and up to 6 months depending on storage conditions and depletion of the solution.

I use distilled water for mixing, store how Adox suggests, and it has all been fine for 6 months. I work with manufacturer’s recommendations and now that there is a 1L pouch there is no reason to try to store the concentrate.

Noting that if you get into making buffered phenidone-ascorbate developer you are trying to reinvent XTOL anyway!

Yes, exactly. But a liquid and with better storage characteristics. Moersch ECO concentrate keeps for 2 years.

 

[MarkWalberg]

Thank you all for the very helpful replies.

All US suppliers (I'm in Texas) say ADOX XT-3 is not available now.
I can't find any US suppliers of Moersch Eco Film Developer. Lots carry paper developer and other Moersch developers.

So, maybe I should just go with XTOL and buy a new batch every 6 months (if not all used before then).

Otherwise, is there a good derivative of PC-TEA that has a buffer that I could make at home? I'm pretty good at mixing chemicals. I see some have made versions based on PC-TEA with borate, getting results they like. For example, Jay DeFehr's PGB110 or PC512 Borax by Karl Matthias. Both of these seem to be easy to make and are said to be very stable and easy to use intermittently.

 

[Ljós]

I e got some PC-TEA I made up. Agree with Freakscene as I also like playing with chemicals. You don’t need Propylene Glycol for PC-Tea, but it’s a good way to store phenidone for future use, or as a basis to make up buffered devs.

However, Adox XT3 is my preferred dev. My only concern, based on adverse XTOL experience is its life. Freakscene may have info on this?

Noting that if you get into making buffered phenidone-ascorbate developer you are trying to reinvent XTOL anyway!

I've been very happy with the keeping qualities of XT3. Freshly mixed and then divided into dark glass bottles with airtight caps, filled to the brim, I got good results up to six months after mixing. (Never tried solution that was older than that.)

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Hc110, no need to reinvent the wheel.

Develop two rolls with one portion straight from concentrate.

 

[Ljós]

Hc110, no need to reinvent the wheel.

Develop two rolls with one portion straight from concentrate.

I agree, in a sense, HC-110 was a mainstay of mine. Apart from the good, consistent results, the keeping properties and the low price per roll I always appreciated its ease of use: no need to compensate for the temperature difference between the developer and the 20 degrees for the water at the dilutions I used.


XTOL/XT3 may technically be 'better' though, and: is less toxic than HC-110. (Freakscene knows way more about this, I am sure!)

 

[ddutchison2]

Buy a cheepo digital scale and mix your own D-76/ID-11 (2gm Metol, 100gm of Sodium Sulfite anhyd., 5gm Hydroquinone, 2gm Borax - per liter). It's as close to a universal film developer as there is, and you only need make enough for immediate use if you're using it 1:1 as a one-shot.

 

[Freakscene]

Buy a cheepo digital scale and mix your own D-76/ID-11 (2gm Metol, 100gm of Sodium Sulfite anhyd., 5gm Hydroquinone, 2gm Borax - per liter). It's as close to a universal film developer as there is, and you only need make enough for immediate use if you're using it 1:1 as a one-shot.

The real problem with D-76 is that you shouldn’t use it right away. The pH and activity change because of oxidation of the hydroquinone. You should mix, let it sit for 24 hours, then use it. It’s one of the reasons that Kodak supported the development and implementation of the project that delivered Xtol.

 

[ddutchison2]

The real problem with D-76 is that you shouldn’t use it right away. The pH and activity change because of oxidation of the hydroquinone. You should mix, let it sit for 24 hours, then use it. It’s one of the reasons that Kodak supported the development and implementation of the project that delivered Xtol.

Now that is interesting.

 

[Freakscene]

Now that is interesting.

It is different between D-76 from the classic formula and modern versions: both recent Kodak D-76 (it also changed when production moved back to the US) and Ilford ID-11 have buffering agents that help stabilise the pH and the activity, but some hydroquinone oxidation and pH change occurs in the first 24 hours after mixing. The best D-76 you can make yourself easily is the buffered variant with a borax-borate buffer as the alkali.

Of commercial D-76, the best is: https://www.adox.de/Photo/adox-d-76-2/ because all the borates were removed and replaced with a non-toxic biodegradable buffer.

 

[sojournerphoto]

It is different between D-76 from the classic formula and modern versions: both recent Kodak D-76 (it also changed when production moved back to the US) and Ilford ID-11 have buffering agents that help stabilise the pH and the activity, but some hydroquinone oxidation and pH change occurs in the first 24 hours after mixing. The best D-76 you can make yourself easily is the buffered variant with a borax-borate buffer as the alkali.

Of commercial D-76, the best is: https://www.adox.de/Photo/adox-d-76-2/ because all the borates were removed and replaced with a non-toxic biodegradable buffer.

Thanks.

Whilst we can get too concerned, removing the borax is generally a good thing from a health perspective I think.

 

[Freakscene]

Thanks.

Whilst we can get too concerned, removing the borax is generally a good thing from a health perspective I think.

Borates in high concentrations are toxic to most plants. There is substantial environmental benefits to removing the borates from developers. Adox X-T3 is probably the most environmentally benign developer you can buy.

 

[Formerly presspass]

Some years ago when Kodak was having trouble delivering chemicals, I decided to mix my own from scratch. If you go this route, I recommend Anchell and Troop's Film Developing Cookbook. I only have the first edition which is full of formula. They include a modified D76 that does not include hydroquinone. I have tried it and it works with the same times/temps as D76. Eventually, I settled on D23 - very simple, only Metol and Sodium Sulfite - can be used full strength one shot, diluted up to 1:3, or replenished. No ph change. It also helps restrain excessive contrast - I can always add that after scanning or in the darkroom.

 

[ddutchison2]

...Of commercial D-76, the best is: The best things in life are analog | ADOX D-76 because all the borates were removed and replaced with a non-toxic biodegradable buffer.

There wouldn't be any source for the formula would there?

 

[Freakscene]

There wouldn't be any source for the formula would there?

The regular D-76 formula is well known.

I am not even sure what buffer Adox uses. Their formula is proprietary. You could buy some of their product and have it analysed if you are really interested.