Back to analog rangefinder photography and RFF

[M like Leica M6]

Last time I was here was in 2011... And I decided to drop all that DSLR and DSLM stuff I used for many years and go back to something simple: I bought me a Yashica electro 35 GTN. I spent way too much time with too much technical finesse and just want simplicity.

Today I see a few things have changed:

- Prices for films are quite bizarre. I feel like in my early days as a high-school student who used his 36 frames very cautiously.

- The last digital camera I use does 16 frames per second, and each of the files has more than 30MB. This kind of cultural Inflation has decreased the value of photography. And now, as AI creates better images than any of us, digital photography itself has become a joke. Nothing is real, nothing has a value as a result of craftsmanship, patience, passion and a little bit of talent.

But I will keep that powerful Sony - as a negative scanner. Five lenses will go, one macro lens and a bellows with a negative and slide attachment will stay. If I weren't such a lousy darkroom printer, I would buy an enlarger tomorrow.

Ilford, Foma and Ilford are still here. XTol and Foma's XTol clone are still here.

Nothing can stop me 🙂

When the AI bubble goes Hindenburg I will open a good bottle of eine.

 

[Bolo Kukus]

Last time I was here was in 2011... And I decided to drop all that DSLR and DSLM stuff I used for many years and go back to something simple: I bought me a Yashica electro 35 GTN. I spent way too much time with too much technical finesse and just want simplicity.

Today I see a few things have changed:

- Prices for films are quite bizarre. I feel like in my early days as a high-school student who used his 36 frames very cautiously.

- The last digital camera I use does 16 frames per second, and each of the files has more than 30MB. This kind of cultural Inflation has decreased the value of photography. And now, as AI creates better images than any of us, digital photography itself has become a joke. Nothing is real, nothing has a value as a result of craftsmanship, patience, passion and a little bit of talent.

But I will keep that powerful Sony - as a negative scanner. Five lenses will go, one macro lens and a bellows with a negative and slide attachment will stay. If I weren't such a lousy darkroom printer, I would buy an enlarger tomorrow.

Ilford, Foma and Ilford are still here. XTol and Foma's XTol clone are still here.

Nothing can stop me 🙂

When the AI bubble goes Hindenburg I will open a good bottle of eine.

I did the same. With a Leica iif - initially the camera only, now a kit - and a Contax G1 - also a kit.

Both cost a lot for me to assemble, but I had been planning for about a decade to return, in a more limited way than in the past, to film. Which I'm now doing, again in a lesser way than I did 20 years ago when I made far more use of the G1.

Leica and Contax. Why two systems? Well, in 2006 I decided to give myself a badly needed break from architecture for at least a year (my escape from work lasted 15 months, and a wonderful time it was) so the G1 was a 'sort of retirement' gift from me to myself. I got a 45/2.0 Planar, which I found I didn't use much as I'm not a standard lens photographer. Then a 28/2.8 Biogon, a 35/2.0 Planar, a 90/2.8 Sonnar, and lastly a 21/2.8 Sonnar.

The Leica came my way through an estate sale. I helped the family to sort, cost and sell my late friend's vast collection of old cameras, and the rels kindly offered me the Leica at a mate's rate price. I went the same way as with the Contax - four Leitz lenses, filters, hoods and a universal viewfinder.

Here in Australia,film is a killer in price terms. I make do with outdated film that I try to use sparingly. My friends who have gone over to The Big D give me their old films, and now and then I get an affordable find on Ebay or from private sellers. New film is more an investment than a purchase.

When the time comes that I've used up all my existing stock, I'll retire or sell my analog cameras and go entirely to digital. My darkroom will go to a friend who is patiently waiting to buy, and wants to use it until his own stock of film and FB paper are used up.

Like so many older photographers, I'm not happy about the decline in 'analog', but let's face it, we must be realistic. Time passes, everything changes.

So much has taken place in photography since 2011. Those 15 years have seen the abandonment of film as anything but a niche market and a mass shift to The Big D, -and sadly, the proliferation of digicrap images that devalue not only photography in general but also the efforts of many serious traditional photographers who value quality over quantity.

I wish you an enjoyable and productive journey with your Yashica. It's a good little shooter, capable of great results if used with attention and care and intelligence. Go forth and be creative!!

 

[Alpsman]

When I see how much more expensive a kilo of bread, a piece of butter, or heating my house has become since the days of my youth, then I don't find film prices all that high.

Foma in the Czech Republic sells film in 50-meter rolls at a very reasonable price, so experiments with expired film that have uncertain outcomes aren't worth it. Besides, people are already asking fantastic prices for expired film because they think they own something valuable.

 

[M like Leica M6]

people are already asking fantastic prices for expired film

Oh, yes.

Current examples here in Germany... And they all swear by their dead grandmother that the films were continuously stored at -18° Celsius.

Expired in 2017: 5 Rollen Fuji Natura 1600 Tiefgefrore Kodak Agfa Cinestill Ilford

Expired in 1990: Ilford FP4 sw Filme 120er MF

And then there are experts who want to sell paper... and open the boxes to take photos of the actual product...

 

[M like Leica M6]

the proliferation of digicrap images that devalue not only photography in general but also the efforts of many serious traditional photographers who value quality over quantity.

This old landscape photographer has examples that made me sick:

 

[steveyork]

Bulk loading some of the more inexpensive B&W films -- Fomapan, Kentmere, Orwo -- is still relatively affordable, especially when combined with home development. They're good films too. Bulk loading will save you about 40% off commercial loads, and then home development at least 75% or more in development costs. Those are real savings. And then some of the creative process takes place as you decide which chemicals and how, so it's worthwhile and fun to do. Some up front costs though. Now if a color shooter, the savings agenda is more limited.

 

[M like Leica M6]

Yeah, I just compared prices. There is a huge gap between the fast local downtown or mall labs on the one hand and the real big ones like CEWE in Europe where you can send your films from a local drugstore or supermarket (dm, Rossmann in Germany, Edeka, Marktkauf in Germany) and get your negatives and prints a week later in the same shop. Here they even do black-and-white, but don't expect Ansel-Adams-quality prints.
And then there are a few highly specialized high-quality analog labs where you can send your films and get prints and scans.

How do you handle that? I am not exactly a fan of darkroom work (including the digital darkroom with scanned negatives).

 

[Vince Lupo]

Bulk loading some of the more inexpensive B&W films -- Fomapan, Kentmere, Orwo -- is still relatively affordable, especially when combined with home development. They're good films too. Bulk loading will save you about 40% off commercial loads, and then home development at least 75% or more in development costs. Those are real savings. And then some of the creative process takes place as you decide which chemicals and how, so it's worthwhile and fun to do. Some up front costs though. Now if a color shooter, the savings agenda is more limited.

Steve I was considering going back to bulk loading (silly me sold off my bulk loader a number of years ago and all the reloadable cassettes etc). I priced Kentmere 100 through a very good and reasonably (relatively) priced supplier here in Canada (Amplis Photo) — 36 exposure roll of Kentmere 100 is $11.00 CDN, 100’ roll of it is $162 CDN. I think you get about 19 rolls of 36 exp film in 100’ — is that correct? So 19 x $11.00 = $209, plus HST (13% here in Ontario), so about $47 in savings not including the dreaded tax. Not sure if it’s economically more beneficial in other countries. But as you mentioned there are some up front costs if you’re starting off from complete zero (bulk loader, reloadable cassettes, chemicals, developing reels and tank etc etc) vs buying 36 exp rolls of film and sending them out to be processed. I’m not sure how much savings there’d be if one continued to buy 36 exp rolls and home-processed them, which is what I’m presently doing. Right now I personally don’t shoot enough 35mm to justify bulk loading but maybe I should do a long-term cost comparison to see.

 

[Coldkennels]

How do you handle that? I am not exactly a fan of darkroom work (including the digital darkroom with scanned negatives).

Here in the UK, it's a case of find a lab you trust and stick with it. A lot of the big names with the most marketing are also the most overpriced and may not give the sort of service that demands that price (*cough* Analogue Wonderland *cough*). I found a small one in London that does fantastic quality B&W developing at a really reasonable price (Southsun Film Lab | Develop and process your film in the UK, if anyone's curious). My best suggestion would be to ask a German photographer you trust and see who they use. I met this guy in Paderborn last year - https://www.instagram.com/joshua.althoff.photographs/ - and I can drop him a DM (direct message, not Deutsche mark!) and ask who he recommends, if you like.

 

[Alpsman]

Oh, yes.

Current examples here in Germany... And they all swear by their dead grandmother that the films were continuously stored at -18° Celsius.
. . . .

A film that expired 20 years ago, declared as
"Film for an art project,"
is being offered for more than the same film brand new.
OK, I don't have to understand it, and most importantly, I don't have to buy it.
...
Maybe I shouldn't waste my last frozen AGFA APX 100 "Made in Germany" film (expiration date 2014) after all, but sell it for a fantastic price?
Just for an "Art Project" ?
🤣

 

[steveyork]

Steve I was considering going back to bulk loading (silly me sold off my bulk loader a number of years ago and all the reloadable cassettes etc). I priced Kentmere 100 through a very good and reasonably (relatively) priced supplier here in Canada (Amplis Photo) — 36 exposure roll of Kentmere 100 is $11.00 CDN, 100’ roll of it is $162 CDN. I think you get about 19 rolls of 36 exp film in 100’ — is that correct? So 19 x $11.00 = $209, plus HST (13% here in Ontario), so about $47 in savings not including the dreaded tax. Not sure if it’s economically more beneficial in other countries. But as you mentioned there are some up front costs if you’re starting off from complete zero (bulk loader, reloadable cassettes, chemicals, developing reels and tank etc etc) vs buying 36 exp rolls of film and sending them out to be processed. I’m not sure how much savings there’d be if one continued to buy 36 exp rolls and home-processed them, which is what I’m presently doing. Right now I personally don’t shoot enough 35mm to justify bulk loading but maybe I should do a long-term cost comparison to see.

Should always qualify my statements with "in my experience." I often use the Freestyle Photo Arista rebrandaded Fomapan bulk rolls at currently $80-85 US (and rising!), coming out to about $4.60 a roll -- 19.5 rolls per 100'. Commercial loads of Arista rebranded run about $7. So, some savings. Similar savings with Kentmere or Orwo (when you can get it), although the bulk loads are a bit more expensive, but -- in my experience -- the biggest savings is home development. Sending film out to get developed can get real pricey last time I looked.

 

[M like Leica M6]

AGFA APX 100

You can buy an APX 100 here at the "dm" drugstore chain for 6.99€. If you put a sticker with an expiration date like "1989" on it, you will get 15€ per roll😎

 

[M like Leica M6]

Orwo

was bancrupt and is now just a branch of a big lab (TCG aka "MEINFOTO") and sells Fuji films. AFAIK the film production is long gone.

 

[Alpsman]

You can buy an APX 100 here at the "dm" drugstore chain for 6.99€. If you put a sticker with an expiration date like "1989" on it, you will get 15€ per roll😎

But then you also have to cover the "Made in EU" with a "Made in Germany" sticker - but very few people know that anyway ;-)

 

[M like Leica M6]

the biggest savings is home development

My little comparison, only in Germany and incomplete:

135/36 c-41 colour negative film development ONLY:

• Big lab - 2.55€
• Good lab or downtown speed-lab: 9-28€

135/36 B/W film development ONLY:

• Big lab - 2.95€ (including mediocre scans)
• Good lab: 9-25€ (without scans)
• Downtown speed-lab: not available

135/36 c-41 colour negative film development, mediocre scans and 36 10x15cm prints:

• Big lab - 4.75€ (cheap paper) or 8.35 (better paper)
• Good lab or downtown speed-lab: 28-39€

135/36 B/W film development, mediocre scans and 36 10x15cm prints:

• Big lab - 9.75€
• Good lab or downtown speed-lab: 30-50€

 

[M like Leica M6]

But then you also have to cover the "Made in EU" with a "Made in Germany" sticker - but very few people know that anyway ;-)

We might add stickers "extra fine-grain", "premium quality" or "exclusive series" on it, or even better "Professional Version" - and double the price.
Isn't that what some companies do? Take old Agfa stock, traffic camera or air surveillance film from the Cold store, put it into cartridges and come up with a pretty label and some AI slop marketing description?

I would prefer if they would use new, fresh films to make sure there is a film manufacturing in the future. And that's one of the reasons why I buy new, fresh films. The other reason is I like good, predictable results.

 

[steveyork]

was bancrupt and is now just a branch of a big lab (TCG aka "MEINFOTO") and sells Fuji films. AFAIK the film production is long gone.

I hope they come out the other side. Liked the film I've used from them -- UN54 and NP100. Still have a couple bulk rolls.

 

[Alpsman]

We might add stickers "extra fine-grain", "premium quality" or "exclusive series" on it, or even better "Professional Version" - and double the price.
Isn't that what some companies do? Take old Agfa stock, traffic camera or air surveillance film from the Cold store, put it into cartridges and come up with a pretty label and some AI slop marketing description?

I would prefer if they would use new, fresh films to make sure there is a film manufacturing in the future. And that's one of the reasons why I buy new, fresh films. The other reason is I like good, predictable results.

Not to forget the
"Artist special limited edition"
and the
"Street high performance edition"
. . .
anyway

Just seeing how many different names the two different aerial films from Agfa Belgium are sold under fills me with admiration for their marketing department.

On the other hand, this makes these films accessible and usable for the average consumer. Without this marketing, we'd probably never get our hands on them.

Although the (infrared-capable) Agfa Aerial films really do stand out from the crowd. I like 'em for certain occasions.