Examples of the King of Bokeh (4th 35pre-asph cron)?

[regit]

I felt curiosity about the other great 35 mm lens of leica apart the summilux: the summaron...

I was reading a Japaness magazine yesterday called "Leica Magazine", issue 10, and it has a comparison of 4 35mm Summicron, from the 8-Elements through to the current ASPH. Very subjectively, I think the 6 and 7 elements 35/2 have the best bokeh, with the 7 elements coming out slightly ahead.

The gradient of in-focus to out-focus (front and back) is important to me. ASPH failed quite misarably in this regards with its very steep focus fall-off. 10 meters or so, everything loses their forms and there seems to be a gaussian blur to the quality. 8 elements seems to do this well, but perhaps a little too well, resulting in a rather harsh look (and a little more "ni-sens" than others). The 6 and 7 elements is in the middle with the 7 element being a little smoother.

Another thing is how much contrast the oof areas have since they can rob the attention from the main subject. And again, the older lenses seems to be a little better.

The only good thing about the ASPH in terms of bokeh is how it render circular highlights. Very neutral.

In terms of other optical qualities, ASPH won out on sharpness in large aperture range. Contrast is also higher, but as a result, the "look" is also more clinical. In night shots for example, abberations are very well controlled in the ASPH, but if you're into mood, this may not be a good thing. For example, lights and skin don't glow at all... As a result, pictures with older version seems livelier and with nice character, particularly the 8-elements. Finally, flare control seems best with 6 and 7 elements. 8 elements is terrible in this regard and a slight hint is present in the ASPH (which I thought should be better)...

Considering the many points, 7-elements (and that's the touted "King") being the middle of almost everything, seems to be a good choice... It is also the smallest of the lot.

 

[raid]

Bokeh King, Bokeh Queen ... I don't know about this. I do like my Summicron 35/2 first version with eight elements. It fits my M3 like a glove, and it is sharp and contrasty.

 

[matu]

Matu: I really like that second shot. OT, but I keep the corks from winebottles as well. My wife thinks I'm crazy, but it is sort of like a scrapbook for me... the corks remind me of each bottle consumed. Some day I'll use the corks to make something. At least that's what I keep telling myself.

Earl

O.T
Earl. don't know why, but the iteration of an item is always atractive.
I've done the same picture with lots of empty bottles.
The drawings on the corks are cool also.

B.O.T
I think that apreciating the lense bokeh is an art, just like tasting wines, personally I could not tell much diffrenece becouse I've only tasted a few lenses.
From my humble experience i like
the Konica Auto S2 Hexanon bokeh also. Is very soft.

 

[Honus]

I've been meaning to come back to this thread and post an example. This is Tri-X rated at 250 iso and developed in XTOL 1:1. f2 @ 1/125 sec.

I love this lens. It is hard to take it off of my M2 these days, but I need to use a 50 for the contest. :bang:

 

[yossarian]

I'm glad I checked this thread. When I linked to LUG I found some submissions by my old friend Walt Johnson.

Anyway, Peter that 2.8 shot is wonderful. And FWIW the 40 Nokton has bokeh
quite similar to what you see in that image.

Fred

 

[danmitch]

Another example (Provia 400) - Dan

 

[Josef Isayo]

I have done one lens test my whole life and probably will never do another one again (waste of time) but the test was a 4th generation 35 2 Summicron (my friends) and my 35 2 Summicron asph.
The new asph. ens absolutly blew away the older lens from wide open all the way threw F 5.6 in sharpness and bokeh. It was very obvious to both of us as my friend sold his "bokeh king" lens a few weeks later for the real bokeh king.

Josef

 

[Flyfisher Tom]

I have done one lens test my whole life and probably will never do another one again (waste of time) but the test was a 4th generation 35 2 Summicron (my friends) and my 35 2 Summicron asph.
The new asph. ens absolutly blew away the older lens from wide open all the way threw F 5.6 in sharpness and bokeh. It was very obvious to both of us as my friend sold his "bokeh king" lens a few weeks later for the real bokeh king.

Josef

That is very interesting Josef. The nice thing is we have so many choices to cater to everyone's individual and highly personal tastes. I agree with your friend, the asph-cron has a very pleasing signature as well.

cheers

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Must...not...look...wallet...convulsing...

 

[Palaeoboy]

The new asph. ens absolutly blew away the older lens from wide open all the way threw F 5.6 in sharpness and bokeh.

I have compared the same and cant agree with this comment at all. Sure the ASPH was sharper at the edges than the Version 4 at wider apertures but to blow something away it would have to be a convincing difference to warrant such a claim and demand for the version 4 is as strong as ever. Placed in strong backlit areas the ASPH bokeh was quite horrid.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Placed in strong backlit areas the ASPH bokeh was quite horrid.

Do you have samples, Paleoboy? This is something that is of great importance to me, among many other factors.

I really like the 35 Ultron. It gives me beautiful shots wide open. Unfortunately, it doesn't handle strong backlit scenes well and I see ghosting in very contrasty, low-lit scenes (at least my copy). This is the only reason why I'm even contemplating the 'lux and 'crons.

 

[tetrisattack]

I know this thread is old, but...

Everybody loves bokeh. 🙂

Here are some more examples that show the transition away from the focal plane, the focus just melts away. The pumpkin was at f/2, I think. The milkjug stopped considerally further down.

 

[pvenables]

Nice to see yours vignettes at f2 like mine, Conor. It may well be the "King of Bokeh", but should also have the title of "Duke of Dark Corners".

Paul

 

[Flyfisher Tom]

Placed in strong backlit areas the ASPH bokeh was quite horrid.

I'm always a little concerned when such strong declaratives are made. Particularly without test controls under the same conditions. After all, what lens has great bokeh when placed in strong backlit areas ? 😉 I'd like to buy it if you can show me one.

Have you seen the 4th's bokeh at f/2 with backlit areas? It did not perform well at all in my experience. No better and no worse than the asph-cron. But this is my point, what lens would? :angel: Some posters test bokeh under the most ridiculous shooting conditions and conclude that the lens' bokeh is deficient without asking whether other lenses would have fared better.

Let's keep in mind that we all have our favorite children. So if that sort of strong declarative must be made, I agree with Gabriel, perhaps samples of the 2 lenses in identical test conditions can be shown so that we can all judge with our eyes 🙂

Both lenses are highly competent lenses. But only under identical test conditions can we really determine the bokeh signatures. For one of the few instances where someone took the time to conduct identical test conditions, please see :

http://www.jimarnold.org/galleries/leica_35_test/


cheers

 

[Flyfisher Tom]

I really like Conor's two shots and the signature it shows. I think it demonstrates many of the fine points of the 4th's reputation, smooth transition from subject to OOF areas.

But, I'm naturally curious about how the the cron-asph compares under identical condition, same lighting, same subject etc.

Perhaps what we need is a new Test Forum where we shoot under identical test conditions ? 😉 And subject these legendary reputations to some rigorous consideration.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Yes, Connor, those are boootiful 🙂 Thanks for posting them!

 

[Flyfisher Tom]

It is all subjective in the end.

For example, I think this very good shot by fellow RFF member Sleepyhead with the 40mm rokkor-m has phenomenal bokeh.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=12389&si=40 rokkor&what=allfields

Cost differences aside, would the 4th be better? perhaps, maybe not, who knows until the same shot is taken with the 4th 🙂

 

[StuartR]

I think the 35/2 pre asph is a very good lens, but there is nothing special about it other than its size to me. I borrowed one to compare to my Hexar AF, a 35mm f/2 M Hexanon and the 35mm f/1.4 Summilux ASPH. Long story short, I gave the King of Bokeh back to Emperor Camera Case at Samy's Camera, and then I sold the 35mm f/2 M Hexanon (which I liked better than it as well). I kept the Hexar AF. While the Hexar AF has a special place in my D-76 soaked heart, the 35mm f/1.4 ASPH is by far the best 35mm lens I have used. I think the bokeh is great too, but I am more concerned about sharpness wide open and performance stopped down. Here are two shots with it. You tell me how the bokeh is, I just like the pictures:

 

[Crasis]

Bleh. I've pushed the 35/2 4th gen pre-asph to some pretty nasty bokeh. I give two examples; One which is beautiful and one with harsh, harsh bokeh.

I should note that both the shots were taken with Ilford Delta 400@1600 and at around f/2.8.

Then again, I've read that this lens is ONLY the bokeh king at f/5.6 and up, so your reading may vary 🙂

 

[Flyfisher Tom]

Bleh. I've pushed the 35/2 4th gen pre-asph to some pretty nasty bokeh. I give two examples; One which is beautiful and one with harsh, harsh bokeh.

I should note that both the shots were taken with Ilford Delta 400@1600 and at around f/2.8.

Then again, I've read that this lens is ONLY the bokeh king at f/5.6 and up, so your reading may vary 🙂

Crasis,

those shots look great at 1600!

Your second shot is precisely what I would call a nearly impossible bokeh background. I don't think it is harsh because of the lens, but because the background itself (the old tree with lots of leaves test) is nearly impossible for any lens to survive.

thanks for posting 🙂