winoto
Established
hello all,
i'm fairly new to RFF but my history with the nikon RFs is longer.
the problem: the high price of SP. i need support from fellow RFF members prior to plungging deep into the pockets of my wallet to justify its acquisition.
i have been lusting after this camera for a good year and a half. despite all it's benefits: six built in, color coated framelines, titanium shutter on some, non-rotating shutter speed dial, brightline illuminator, etc. i have not yet bought one purely because of its rarity here in australia and the price. Is it worth it? (sadly one SP kit just went on ebay for a just little more than the S3 kit...still self flagellating myself for it) i hope it was to one of you lot. i didn't really need the lenses.
Having never actually held one in hand and played with one, I don't know what i'm missing. I'm awaiting some enlightenment.
At the moment i have 5 pairs of perfectly good pair of eyeglasses with scratched left lens due to my nikon S rounded viewfinder. I believe (and am trying to convice my wife to believe) that the SP may solve this problem. Come to think of it, I could've bought an SP for the price of my five ruined pairs of eyeglasses!!
The titanium shutter is what i desire most? does anyone know which models SP serial numbers have these shutters? should I just have one of my nikon S converted by S. Gandy to titanium shutter? one of them certainly could use a curtain replacement.
Thanks...i appreciate your input
having said all this, it would probably only take a good user brassed black nikon SP for me to sell my soul to the seller.
i'm fairly new to RFF but my history with the nikon RFs is longer.
the problem: the high price of SP. i need support from fellow RFF members prior to plungging deep into the pockets of my wallet to justify its acquisition.
i have been lusting after this camera for a good year and a half. despite all it's benefits: six built in, color coated framelines, titanium shutter on some, non-rotating shutter speed dial, brightline illuminator, etc. i have not yet bought one purely because of its rarity here in australia and the price. Is it worth it? (sadly one SP kit just went on ebay for a just little more than the S3 kit...still self flagellating myself for it) i hope it was to one of you lot. i didn't really need the lenses.
Having never actually held one in hand and played with one, I don't know what i'm missing. I'm awaiting some enlightenment.
At the moment i have 5 pairs of perfectly good pair of eyeglasses with scratched left lens due to my nikon S rounded viewfinder. I believe (and am trying to convice my wife to believe) that the SP may solve this problem. Come to think of it, I could've bought an SP for the price of my five ruined pairs of eyeglasses!!
The titanium shutter is what i desire most? does anyone know which models SP serial numbers have these shutters? should I just have one of my nikon S converted by S. Gandy to titanium shutter? one of them certainly could use a curtain replacement.
Thanks...i appreciate your input
having said all this, it would probably only take a good user brassed black nikon SP for me to sell my soul to the seller.
VinceC
Veteran
If you like shooting Nikon rangefinders, the SP is a major step up in usability.The S is a charming antique. The SP remains a fully functional modern camera. Other than a lack of light meter, is is on part with using a modern Leica M-series camera. Some (such as myself) would argue that it's better than an M.
Dim viewfinders are an issue. Brian has been lucky, and he may be onto something with the later finders ... the SP was criticized even during its production run for dim finders, so Nippon Kogaku may have improved the coatings toward the end.
Prices have been down on Nikon rf gear the past couple of years, making them again affordable for users.
Because they are scarce in Australia, I assume they would hold their local resale value there. You could get an SP off EBay and, if you decide it's not your cup of grog, you could probably resell it for very little if any loss.
EDIT: The SP will scratch your glasses, too. I know from experience. Get some O-ring material to glue on it. The back of the finder is comparable to a plain-prism Nikon F -- it is a flat metal plate. It's not as bad as the Contax or Kiev, but I use an SP/S3 daily, and my glasses are scratched.
Dim viewfinders are an issue. Brian has been lucky, and he may be onto something with the later finders ... the SP was criticized even during its production run for dim finders, so Nippon Kogaku may have improved the coatings toward the end.
Prices have been down on Nikon rf gear the past couple of years, making them again affordable for users.
Because they are scarce in Australia, I assume they would hold their local resale value there. You could get an SP off EBay and, if you decide it's not your cup of grog, you could probably resell it for very little if any loss.
EDIT: The SP will scratch your glasses, too. I know from experience. Get some O-ring material to glue on it. The back of the finder is comparable to a plain-prism Nikon F -- it is a flat metal plate. It's not as bad as the Contax or Kiev, but I use an SP/S3 daily, and my glasses are scratched.
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VinceC
Veteran
Yes. I need to glue some felt on. I spent a few years not taking many pictures. When I started back up again about 18 months ago, I rediscovered what it's like to need a new pair of glasses every year.
MikeL
Go Fish
VinceC
Veteran
The S2 is wicked with its sharp circle. The S3/SP are much more gentle. They mainly scratched off the antireflective coating from glasses in about that same location (yes, my camera lenses convinced me, long ago, to always get multicoating).
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
get an SP if it is your hearts desire.
a Leica M4-P has framelines for 28mm to 135mm lenses and can be bought much cheaper, but it is not a Nikon SP and the Leica is too logical.
when you hanker for an SP, only an SP will do.
a Leica M4-P has framelines for 28mm to 135mm lenses and can be bought much cheaper, but it is not a Nikon SP and the Leica is too logical.
when you hanker for an SP, only an SP will do.
VinceC
Veteran
Leica M's don't handle the longer lenses as well because the viewfinder image is reduced. If you wear eyeglasses, an SP finder allows you to very easily frame 28 to 135 lenses without struggling.
rbsinto
Well-known
I'll pass, thanks.
As digital becomes the norm and film retreats into a niche market, the cost of film gear, especially manual focus film gear has come down a great deal. Even Leica bodies can be purchased relatively inexpensively. However, the lenses are still a King's Ransom, which is another reason why I'll stick to Nikon for my rangefinder and SLR gear.
As digital becomes the norm and film retreats into a niche market, the cost of film gear, especially manual focus film gear has come down a great deal. Even Leica bodies can be purchased relatively inexpensively. However, the lenses are still a King's Ransom, which is another reason why I'll stick to Nikon for my rangefinder and SLR gear.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
rbsinto said:
The problem here lies in the fact that the Leica lenses are usable on the RD-1 and the M8. The lenses are snapped up by the owners of these. The Nikkors in S-mount are still bought by filmusers (or those of us who have Orion or Orion copy adapters). The good news with this is that Nikkor Rf lenses are getting relatively cheap compared to Leica M and LTM mount lenses.
As for buying a 2005 SP - my only reason for getting one was to get the 35f1.8 that comes with it. Once I got that lens, my desire for the SP 2005 subsided considerably ( it is not completely gone though!). The S3's that I have get more use than the SP's. My black S3 Millenium is one of the smoothest cameras I have ever had. The release is so soft and quiet that sometimes I wonder if it even released!
I am mainly a 21/35/50 user and the S3'x covers that nicely. Once you have all the framelines dialled in on a SP - it looks like a videogame! When I use a longer lens on the Nikon's it is the 105 that I grab and the S3 has good frames for that.
VinceC
Veteran
I'm near-sighted and nowadays use bifocals. I think the Nikon RFs work well with glasses, other than the scratching issue, which can be resolved with glued felt or stick-on felt.
I've never felt a desire to use diopters, because I need my glasses to see everything else, so I really only take them off at the end of the day.
I've never felt a desire to use diopters, because I need my glasses to see everything else, so I really only take them off at the end of the day.
BillBingham2
Registered User
I use my Leica M6 as my main camera because I have a wider range of lenses choices than on my S2. Now it must be said, I got my S2 about a year and a half ago and love it. I am lusting for an SP or S3, but finances are dry for awhile (about another year) so I will enjoy what I have.
I have a 105/2.5 and 85/2 in LTM and love them. Automatic parallax correction is a WONDERFUL thing for longer lenses. The SP led the world there. While I have never used an SP, being able to dial the correct frame line for the lens you want is way better than sharing between a wide and a long lens. I hate seeing a 135 frame line when I am using a wide angle lens.
As my S2 carry kit is a CV 25/4, Nikkor 50/1.4 and Nikkor 105/2.5, moving to an SP is not a pressing issue for me. My 25 requires an external finder, even on the SP and I have a brightline finder for my 105.
I think I will be sitting around waiting for a new SP to come down in price (read sitting around a LONG time).
Remember, your mileage may vary.
B2 (;->
I have a 105/2.5 and 85/2 in LTM and love them. Automatic parallax correction is a WONDERFUL thing for longer lenses. The SP led the world there. While I have never used an SP, being able to dial the correct frame line for the lens you want is way better than sharing between a wide and a long lens. I hate seeing a 135 frame line when I am using a wide angle lens.
As my S2 carry kit is a CV 25/4, Nikkor 50/1.4 and Nikkor 105/2.5, moving to an SP is not a pressing issue for me. My 25 requires an external finder, even on the SP and I have a brightline finder for my 105.
I think I will be sitting around waiting for a new SP to come down in price (read sitting around a LONG time).
Remember, your mileage may vary.
B2 (;->
ZivcoPhoto
Well-known
Winoto
There are still some very nice, original SPs to be gotten. I bought one on that big auction site last week from a buyer I have had previous dealing with. Not only did I get a cosmetically very nice camera, but it is a mid production run model with cloth shutter and a very bright viewfinder with excellent rangefinder patch....on par or better than either of my S2s which work swell.
So I would not discount buying a used SP just yet.
After several years experience with S2s I would have to say the SP is a must for multiple lens shooters. I find the mini viewfinder for 28 and 35 a pleasure to use instead of a viewfinder mounted on top of the camera.
Not only are the viewfinders and rangefinder patch bright and easy to use but the other mechanics work as they are supposed to..including self timer. So this used purchase was a home run....I was lucky.
As the NikonHS webmaster states...many people who have used Nikon F or Nikon RF cameras wear glasses and don't have glass scratch problem.
I wear glasses all the time and I have never scratched a pair of glasses on any Nikon I have ever used (since mid '60's).
There are still some very nice, original SPs to be gotten. I bought one on that big auction site last week from a buyer I have had previous dealing with. Not only did I get a cosmetically very nice camera, but it is a mid production run model with cloth shutter and a very bright viewfinder with excellent rangefinder patch....on par or better than either of my S2s which work swell.
So I would not discount buying a used SP just yet.
After several years experience with S2s I would have to say the SP is a must for multiple lens shooters. I find the mini viewfinder for 28 and 35 a pleasure to use instead of a viewfinder mounted on top of the camera.
Not only are the viewfinders and rangefinder patch bright and easy to use but the other mechanics work as they are supposed to..including self timer. So this used purchase was a home run....I was lucky.
As the NikonHS webmaster states...many people who have used Nikon F or Nikon RF cameras wear glasses and don't have glass scratch problem.
I wear glasses all the time and I have never scratched a pair of glasses on any Nikon I have ever used (since mid '60's).
VinceC
Veteran
My glass-scratch problem is caused more by the S3 than the SP. I like to use the S3 with a 28mm lens and so am always pressing my glasses hard up against the viewfinder.
VinceC
Veteran
>>A 28 finder would also be a huge improvement for you<<
I'm too set in my ways at this point. I have a truly wonderful CV 25/4 lens with one of the best viewfinders ever, but I don't like using a separate viewfinder. So I still mostly use the 28mm lens, about half the time on an SP, half the time on an S3 (I used my SP for black and white and my S3 for color, mostly ... no reason, just the way I do it).
I'm too set in my ways at this point. I have a truly wonderful CV 25/4 lens with one of the best viewfinders ever, but I don't like using a separate viewfinder. So I still mostly use the 28mm lens, about half the time on an SP, half the time on an S3 (I used my SP for black and white and my S3 for color, mostly ... no reason, just the way I do it).
awilder
Alan Wilder
I breifly owned the 2005 SP kit but returned it to the dealer for a few reasons:
1.) Lens mounting on the 35/1.8 was not as fast as my Leica M as you must remember to reset the camera's focus wheel and lens to infinity for proper rf coupling.
2.) My sample although new, had the 1/30 speed a stop slow measuring 1/15 instead of 1/30.
3.) I prefer a built in meter as I shoot mostly slides and don't feel like using an external meter.
4.) 35/1.8 not very sharp by todays standard. Needs to be stopped down to at least f/2.8 or f/4 before performance is decent. Contrast to the new 50/1.4 on the 2000 S3 which is the best 50/1.4 Nikon's ever made and is only beat by a small degree by the 50/1.4 asph. Summilux.
5.) Like the old Nikon F, the shutter release is set closer to the rear and slightly less comfotable in location for my finger.
Fit and finish is outstanding on the SP 2005 especially the black enamel.
1.) Lens mounting on the 35/1.8 was not as fast as my Leica M as you must remember to reset the camera's focus wheel and lens to infinity for proper rf coupling.
2.) My sample although new, had the 1/30 speed a stop slow measuring 1/15 instead of 1/30.
3.) I prefer a built in meter as I shoot mostly slides and don't feel like using an external meter.
4.) 35/1.8 not very sharp by todays standard. Needs to be stopped down to at least f/2.8 or f/4 before performance is decent. Contrast to the new 50/1.4 on the 2000 S3 which is the best 50/1.4 Nikon's ever made and is only beat by a small degree by the 50/1.4 asph. Summilux.
5.) Like the old Nikon F, the shutter release is set closer to the rear and slightly less comfotable in location for my finger.
Fit and finish is outstanding on the SP 2005 especially the black enamel.
rbsinto
Well-known
I've worn glasses (as I am nearsighted) for many years, and have progressed to the stage where I now wear bifocals. Over the years I've tried contact lenses, custom ground prescription lenses that fit into Nikon diopter corrector screw-ons, as well as the more mundane, just wear my glasses when shooting.
Everything else I tried had drawbacks, and simply wearing my bifocals when I shoot seems to work very well, regardless whether I'm using SLR's or my S3. On the SLR's I have rubber-ringed screw in lenses on the cameras, and nothing on the S3. However so far, I've not scratched my left eyeglass lens, so may just leave the S3 viewfinder alone.
Everything else I tried had drawbacks, and simply wearing my bifocals when I shoot seems to work very well, regardless whether I'm using SLR's or my S3. On the SLR's I have rubber-ringed screw in lenses on the cameras, and nothing on the S3. However so far, I've not scratched my left eyeglass lens, so may just leave the S3 viewfinder alone.
NIKON KIU
Did you say Nippon Kogaku
Nikon is logic
Nikon is logic
Shall I go on?
Kiu
Nikon is logic
To you the Leica may be logical but this is the Nikon forum, the Leica is not logical at all...everything turns the wrong way,the lenses have the engraving in the wrong place, the lens realease is in the wrong placexayraa33 said:
Shall I go on?
Kiu
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
I do use an S2 Kiu.
MikeL
Go Fish
The bottom falls off when the back should?
wes loder
Photographer/Historian
Location of Nikon RF (and F) shutter release
Location of Nikon RF (and F) shutter release
Some peopel find the positon of the release set to the rear of the deck to be uncomfortable.
If you place your index finger on the release and your middle finger on the focus wheel, it is not that unnatural.
Remember, all the Leicas prior to the M3 also had the release to the rear, as did the many Leica copies. Since the Nikon's internals are almost pure Leica, the placement of the release makes sense. From a mechanical point-of-view, it makes even more sense. The shutter release is connected to a rod that goes directly through the advance spocket wheel shaft. The shutter is actually released in the bottom of the camera. Mechanically simple and reliable. Moving the release to the front of the deck requires an additional linkage and would place the fingers of the right hand too close together for the "1-2-3-shoot" operation. Cheers, WES LODER
Location of Nikon RF (and F) shutter release
Some peopel find the positon of the release set to the rear of the deck to be uncomfortable.
If you place your index finger on the release and your middle finger on the focus wheel, it is not that unnatural.
Remember, all the Leicas prior to the M3 also had the release to the rear, as did the many Leica copies. Since the Nikon's internals are almost pure Leica, the placement of the release makes sense. From a mechanical point-of-view, it makes even more sense. The shutter release is connected to a rod that goes directly through the advance spocket wheel shaft. The shutter is actually released in the bottom of the camera. Mechanically simple and reliable. Moving the release to the front of the deck requires an additional linkage and would place the fingers of the right hand too close together for the "1-2-3-shoot" operation. Cheers, WES LODER