proenca
Proenca
hello there ,
sorry for the existencial problems but in the market for a camera.. having used a M7 and it was an absolute joy, i only found two things : the cocking of the shutter wasnt very smooth, was very robotic and the shutter noise, which some people praised to be virtually silent wasnt that silent. yes was quiet, but not virtually. if i was in a room without much noise and if i took the picture, the shutter can be heard.
now, the MP drama.
MP seems a logical buy or step for me : one day i will problably go to digital again and MP seems the absolute opposite of digital therefore its best compliment : film , mechanical, non battery dependant, roboust .. well, all the qualities that digital dont have and make sense to have one camera like that.
but im afraid to buy it.
no AE ? now thats a first since i joined photography. i rarely used my M7 in manual mode, just because I enjoyed the AE very much. point, focus, check exposure, click. there. simple, fast. with MP you have to set the speed first, fiddle with apperture to get an accurate exposure , focus and click. plus the speed wheel is not so big so i have to take my shooting positino and put the camera to waist level ( or at least stop focusing ) to reset the speed.
then theres the issue of aperture : i love wide open apertures. the bokeh effect. for example, when I had the M7, I select the aperture and then it calculates the speed, meaning that if I wanted that special bokeh fromt hat lens, would be there, fast. with the MP i reckon that would be more difficult. to shoot wide open, no to fiddle with the lens to fine tune exposure means take the camera off the eye, check exposure, take camera off the eye, rotate dial, check exposure, take camera off the eye, check exposure, click. sounds daunting
because if you compensate with the aperture, there goes the smooth bokeh..
so i wonder, is the MP a camera for me ? why not a M6 classic ? or even M6 TTL ? sure they have batteries and the MP is newer and have a better viewfinder, but its worth almost the double ?
one thing always puzzled me...
the intervals of the MP ( or other full time manual camera )... with the M7 if a scene is , lets say I have 400 ISO film loaded and its a dark scene, im using a 1.4 aperture and it says 1/90 ... well with the M7 I just click and he assumes 1/90.. with a MP I have 1/60 or 1/125 as options.. and this is considering that i will be using the lens wide open at 1.4, so i cant change aperture.. so I will have to bracket ( 2 exposures instead of one ) but even still, one will be a bit underexposed and the other a bit overexposed.. neither will be spot on... im missing something here?
on a last note, somethings appeal me very much in the MP : although its suposedly the bigger brother ( or younger, you ppl chose > ) of the M7, it seems ( from pictures, never hold one ) with a different finish, different cranftmanship.. the non flashy red badge looks i love it, very clean, crisp, the dozens of ex/M7 users that now have a MP and say the cocking is so much smoother and the shutter quieter... the depreciation free choice( well that is assuming that a MP, or at least the one im seeing is roughly 10/15% more than a M7, therefore if Im using the MP for a couple of months and decide not to like it, I trade it in for a M7, and I wont have to pay much or anything, which would be equivalent for a week or so rental of a MP, so basically, I wont loose money. well , much ) and the investment idea.. as I said in the beggining, this camera makes all the sense in the work to keep as a backup one day, when i move to digital, the MP makes sense as a bateryless roubust camera that would work when the digital fails..
so im basicaly :bang::bang::bang: here trying to figure what to do. please post your opinions, i would like to hear from MP users, from M7 users that have/had a MP, from users that did not buy a MP because they did not like or trade one and from all users that have anything to say
cheers
sorry for the existencial problems but in the market for a camera.. having used a M7 and it was an absolute joy, i only found two things : the cocking of the shutter wasnt very smooth, was very robotic and the shutter noise, which some people praised to be virtually silent wasnt that silent. yes was quiet, but not virtually. if i was in a room without much noise and if i took the picture, the shutter can be heard.
now, the MP drama.
MP seems a logical buy or step for me : one day i will problably go to digital again and MP seems the absolute opposite of digital therefore its best compliment : film , mechanical, non battery dependant, roboust .. well, all the qualities that digital dont have and make sense to have one camera like that.
but im afraid to buy it.
no AE ? now thats a first since i joined photography. i rarely used my M7 in manual mode, just because I enjoyed the AE very much. point, focus, check exposure, click. there. simple, fast. with MP you have to set the speed first, fiddle with apperture to get an accurate exposure , focus and click. plus the speed wheel is not so big so i have to take my shooting positino and put the camera to waist level ( or at least stop focusing ) to reset the speed.
then theres the issue of aperture : i love wide open apertures. the bokeh effect. for example, when I had the M7, I select the aperture and then it calculates the speed, meaning that if I wanted that special bokeh fromt hat lens, would be there, fast. with the MP i reckon that would be more difficult. to shoot wide open, no to fiddle with the lens to fine tune exposure means take the camera off the eye, check exposure, take camera off the eye, rotate dial, check exposure, take camera off the eye, check exposure, click. sounds daunting
because if you compensate with the aperture, there goes the smooth bokeh..so i wonder, is the MP a camera for me ? why not a M6 classic ? or even M6 TTL ? sure they have batteries and the MP is newer and have a better viewfinder, but its worth almost the double ?
one thing always puzzled me...
the intervals of the MP ( or other full time manual camera )... with the M7 if a scene is , lets say I have 400 ISO film loaded and its a dark scene, im using a 1.4 aperture and it says 1/90 ... well with the M7 I just click and he assumes 1/90.. with a MP I have 1/60 or 1/125 as options.. and this is considering that i will be using the lens wide open at 1.4, so i cant change aperture.. so I will have to bracket ( 2 exposures instead of one ) but even still, one will be a bit underexposed and the other a bit overexposed.. neither will be spot on... im missing something here?
on a last note, somethings appeal me very much in the MP : although its suposedly the bigger brother ( or younger, you ppl chose >
) of the M7, it seems ( from pictures, never hold one ) with a different finish, different cranftmanship.. the non flashy red badge looks i love it, very clean, crisp, the dozens of ex/M7 users that now have a MP and say the cocking is so much smoother and the shutter quieter... the depreciation free choice( well that is assuming that a MP, or at least the one im seeing is roughly 10/15% more than a M7, therefore if Im using the MP for a couple of months and decide not to like it, I trade it in for a M7, and I wont have to pay much or anything, which would be equivalent for a week or so rental of a MP, so basically, I wont loose money. well , much ) and the investment idea.. as I said in the beggining, this camera makes all the sense in the work to keep as a backup one day, when i move to digital, the MP makes sense as a bateryless roubust camera that would work when the digital fails..so im basicaly :bang::bang::bang: here trying to figure what to do. please post your opinions, i would like to hear from MP users, from M7 users that have/had a MP, from users that did not buy a MP because they did not like or trade one and from all users that have anything to say
cheers
Last edited:
fraley
Beware of Claws
I will go first and I hope I don't stop this thread! I don't own either an M7 or MP, but am planning on buying one or the other. I've also considered an M6 instead. So I have no experience to offer but I have been over the same ground.
First about auto exposure. The MP and the M6 are even on this score -- neither one has auto exposure. Setting both the shutter speed and the aperture may result in either more thoughtful shooting habits or missed photos, depending on your point of view. In practice, I find I pretty much know the settings I need in average daylight. There's not a lot of adjustment needed. As to the awkwardness of adjusting the shutter speed in order to keep the lens wide open, you seem a bit inflexible on this point to me. Wouldn't it be simple enough to choose as slow a shutter speed as practical, and then adjust your aperture from wide open to whatever is indicated by the meter?
Again, if you are using a 1.4 aperture and a shutter speed of 1/90 is indicated, rather than overexposing at 1/60 or underexposing at 1/125, wouldn't it be simpler to stop down one half-stop, and shoot at 1/60? For instance, I often shoot at 1/125 with an f-stop halfway between 1/11 and 1/16 on overcast days with 100 ISO film. The aperture is much easier to adjust than the speed. And not every shot calls for bokeh.
Consider this, the MP is not functionally so different from the M6. It is more about build quality and attention to detail than anything. The M7 on the other hand offers more flexible shutter speeds and automatic exposure. In fact, it seems that what you really want is another M7 with a smoother film advance and a quieter shutter.
First about auto exposure. The MP and the M6 are even on this score -- neither one has auto exposure. Setting both the shutter speed and the aperture may result in either more thoughtful shooting habits or missed photos, depending on your point of view. In practice, I find I pretty much know the settings I need in average daylight. There's not a lot of adjustment needed. As to the awkwardness of adjusting the shutter speed in order to keep the lens wide open, you seem a bit inflexible on this point to me. Wouldn't it be simple enough to choose as slow a shutter speed as practical, and then adjust your aperture from wide open to whatever is indicated by the meter?
Again, if you are using a 1.4 aperture and a shutter speed of 1/90 is indicated, rather than overexposing at 1/60 or underexposing at 1/125, wouldn't it be simpler to stop down one half-stop, and shoot at 1/60? For instance, I often shoot at 1/125 with an f-stop halfway between 1/11 and 1/16 on overcast days with 100 ISO film. The aperture is much easier to adjust than the speed. And not every shot calls for bokeh.
Consider this, the MP is not functionally so different from the M6. It is more about build quality and attention to detail than anything. The M7 on the other hand offers more flexible shutter speeds and automatic exposure. In fact, it seems that what you really want is another M7 with a smoother film advance and a quieter shutter.
proenca
Proenca
lol indeed. you got my point. still i think im giong to try the MP.. they seems almost rare on the used market here in the UK by now, everyone has M7 ( loads actually ) but MPs only seldom one appears
i guess i have to be a bit more flexible in that department and maybe using a MP will teach me more about photography.
please continue to express your opinoins about this
also, for MP users : i know the camera is praticly batteryless, but I still have the <.> simbols on red on the viewfinder right ? or is purely mechanical.. i think the MP still has one battery, i wonder if its for that
i guess i have to be a bit more flexible in that department and maybe using a MP will teach me more about photography.
please continue to express your opinoins about this
also, for MP users : i know the camera is praticly batteryless, but I still have the <.> simbols on red on the viewfinder right ? or is purely mechanical.. i think the MP still has one battery, i wonder if its for that
fraley
Beware of Claws
Yes, the MP has through the lens metering. You can read more here. Click on the 'Technical Data' link on the right side of the page that this takes you to:
http://www.leica-camera.co.uk/photography/m_system/mp/
I too am seduced by the simplicity and elegance of the MP
http://www.leica-camera.co.uk/photography/m_system/mp/
I too am seduced by the simplicity and elegance of the MP
aizan
Veteran
well, since you've already decided, i'll say that it would be even cooler to get an a la carte mp or the mp3 kit.
maddoc
... likes film again.
I have the M6 (non ttl) with 0.72 finder and will buy a MP (0.72 finder) as soon as possible. I was thinking about the M7, too ... but I let an opportunity go and don't regret it. I got used to the full manual setting of my M6, no need for auto-anything ... I used only digital for a long time before going back to film and had almost forgotten that film is much more forgivable regarding exposure .... If my exposure is a half stop off, usually no big deal for me, even one stop off is often no big problem.
For me, the build quality of the MP, the missing "Leica" label (Oh look, this guy is shooting with a "Leica" !....), and the quite shutter are more important for me than AE.
-Gabor
For me, the build quality of the MP, the missing "Leica" label (Oh look, this guy is shooting with a "Leica" !....), and the quite shutter are more important for me than AE.
-Gabor
Artorius
Caribbean Traveler
I just returned from one of my grand daughters birthday skate party. I took my Nikon D2h, and my M6. I shot about 115 pics with the D2h, and only about 72 pics with the M6(B&W Ilford 400). I spent more time with the H focusing and exposure. With the M6, I already knew the exposure, and using the 28/1.9 Ultron in close quarters, I really didn't need to focus every shot, as I pre focused most shots I wanted to be B&W. Granted the Nikon will prob ally win the most usable pics, but I think the M6 will win the better shot-for-shot ratio.
AE is nice, AF is nice, but in MY terms I prefer to be the judge of what gets taken.
AE is nice, AF is nice, but in MY terms I prefer to be the judge of what gets taken.
mervynyan
Mervyn Yan
If you want one, then get one, over-analyze is very bad b/c there is no perfect products.
AE is a bit over-rated, IMHO, shooting 1.4@1/90, you can do 1.7@1/60, you WILL NOT be able to detect DOF difference unless you do precision testing on charts. Don't be fool about AE, stepless shutter is not true stepless and sophisticated unless the light meter can tell 1/10 increment. Best meters like Sekonic can only tell you 1/10 increment, nothing more. With manual exposure, the pictures' exposure are more consistent under similar lightings b/c the settings are the same. Half stop reading difference won't bother me much.
M7 is the best camera if you do a lot of fast work. MP is for more deliberated use. Since you already have either one, don't waste money on second body, spend the money on lenses. If you must, get an used Ms.
I have a MP and absolutely love it, won't trade it more anything. Personally I believe MP retains more resale value, perhaps few years down the road I can pick up a M7 or M8 for few hundred bucks-
AE is a bit over-rated, IMHO, shooting 1.4@1/90, you can do 1.7@1/60, you WILL NOT be able to detect DOF difference unless you do precision testing on charts. Don't be fool about AE, stepless shutter is not true stepless and sophisticated unless the light meter can tell 1/10 increment. Best meters like Sekonic can only tell you 1/10 increment, nothing more. With manual exposure, the pictures' exposure are more consistent under similar lightings b/c the settings are the same. Half stop reading difference won't bother me much.
M7 is the best camera if you do a lot of fast work. MP is for more deliberated use. Since you already have either one, don't waste money on second body, spend the money on lenses. If you must, get an used Ms.
I have a MP and absolutely love it, won't trade it more anything. Personally I believe MP retains more resale value, perhaps few years down the road I can pick up a M7 or M8 for few hundred bucks-
proenca
Proenca
the missing leica label is one big plus for me... i carried a 1Ds with L lens for over a year, brilliant camera but everyone in at least two continents can see you with a camera. MP screams stealth ( yes, it was an irony )
MP a la carte ? unfortunatly, no money my M7 and a couple of lens got stolen, im restarting again and with a budget.. so the MP really streches it, even used. I would love to, honestly. is it possible to have the reduced framelimes installed in a used camera ? in europe ? I know in the USA you have DAG that does everything ( even instaling a microwave in the M's ) but is there anything similar in europe ? more preferably UK ?
i also belive that using the MP will force me to teach photography even better : i vaguely have an idea of which speed on certain situations but if I have to estimate it everytime it would be better... I learned to pre/focus with my M7, saves time. never did it with any digital camera, you get lazy AF to do that .
and fraley, indeed you are right .) never saw things from that angle, ie, it never occured me.. im so used to AE that it didnt occured me to use 1/60 and stop down half a stop. anyway, the bokeh wont be massive difference frmo 1.4 to 2.0... and braketing well, its always an option..
)MP a la carte ? unfortunatly, no money
my M7 and a couple of lens got stolen, im restarting again and with a budget.. so the MP really streches it, even used. I would love to, honestly. is it possible to have the reduced framelimes installed in a used camera ? in europe ? I know in the USA you have DAG that does everything ( even instaling a microwave in the M's ) but is there anything similar in europe ? more preferably UK ?i also belive that using the MP will force me to teach photography even better : i vaguely have an idea of which speed on certain situations but if I have to estimate it everytime it would be better... I learned to pre/focus with my M7, saves time. never did it with any digital camera, you get lazy AF to do that .
and fraley, indeed you are right .) never saw things from that angle, ie, it never occured me.. im so used to AE that it didnt occured me to use 1/60 and stop down half a stop. anyway, the bokeh wont be massive difference frmo 1.4 to 2.0... and braketing well, its always an option..
proenca
Proenca
oh by the way, maybe i didnt put it clear : either M7 or MP , im buying them used but still in the used market, the MP is roughly 10 to 20% more expensive than the M7.
funny though, an all manual camera with the bare mininum of electronics holds its value better than one with loads of eletronics.
rather like a Porsche 911 GT3 vs a Turbo.
but still in the used market, the MP is roughly 10 to 20% more expensive than the M7. funny though, an all manual camera with the bare mininum of electronics holds its value better than one with loads of eletronics.
rather like a Porsche 911 GT3 vs a Turbo.
M
Magus
Guest
Post deleted by posters request
proenca
Proenca
well magus, many things can be said about your avatar picture, but fewer can be said from your condensing capabilities kudos !
kudos !TJV
Well-known
MP all the way.
I have an M7 and love it but I couldn't care less about the AE.
If money was no object I'd go the MP3 or LHSA MP, or an al la care MP with a 0.85 finder.
My ultimate camera is an M3 with quick load system upgrade.
My M7 is more quiet than any other camera I've heard, including my M3, old M6 and friends MP.
The more I travel along the path photography puts in front of me, the more I realise I can't stand automation. Some may remember that I went from a three body Leica M setup to a one film body (M7) and an M8 setup. The M8 didn't work out for me, mostly because it turned out to be a hideous lemon, buy also because binary code lacks magic, in my book at least. If I've learnt anything of late, it's that I'm not in a rush and good things take time and patience.
I say get hold of a mint M3, an external finder and spot meter. That will make the heart rush and inspire good photos!
But I'm biased.
I have an M7 and love it but I couldn't care less about the AE.
If money was no object I'd go the MP3 or LHSA MP, or an al la care MP with a 0.85 finder.
My ultimate camera is an M3 with quick load system upgrade.
My M7 is more quiet than any other camera I've heard, including my M3, old M6 and friends MP.
The more I travel along the path photography puts in front of me, the more I realise I can't stand automation. Some may remember that I went from a three body Leica M setup to a one film body (M7) and an M8 setup. The M8 didn't work out for me, mostly because it turned out to be a hideous lemon, buy also because binary code lacks magic, in my book at least. If I've learnt anything of late, it's that I'm not in a rush and good things take time and patience.
I say get hold of a mint M3, an external finder and spot meter. That will make the heart rush and inspire good photos!
But I'm biased.
proenca
Proenca
since i got my stuff stolen, i have to restart my lens and camera collection. MP will problably be my bet ( unless when I got to the shop on monday they sold it already ), along with a 50mm summilux pre/asph. later, when the credit card doesnt scream , i will add a 28mm and if there is one camera that I always liked ( asthetics wise ) is the M4/P. but going from someone whos used to AE to a full manual, no metering its a bit far stretched i will get there, but not now i supose
i will get there, but not now i supose
richard_l
Well-known
Buy the camera you are going to enjoy the most using. If you like AE so much that you are "afraid" of not having this feature, forget all about about the M6 or MP or depreciation or other peripheral matters. If it must be a Leica, then it all narrows down to the M7. It may not be the perfect solution, but neither are the other options, and trying to weigh all the little pros and cons can drive a person nuts.proenca said:
Richard
aizan
Veteran
or paralysis. i haven't bought another leica since the m2 i sold because none of them are "perfect". :bang:
richard_l
Well-known
True enough, but the M2 comes the closest to perfection of all the M models, although the M2 instructions are so crappy that they don't even show how to install the batteries.aizan said:
Richard
M
Magus
Guest
Post deleted by posters request
Mike Richards
Well-known
My MP, M7, and M6TTLs
My MP, M7, and M6TTLs
Being somewhat of a collector, I have 7 M's: MP, M7, M6TTL (1 black and 1 silver), M4-2, M3, and M2. I like them all. The MP is my favorite overall. I use the M7 for quick "grab" shooting under highly variable light conditions. However, in most conditions, I spend as much if not more time fiddling with the M7 in AE mode than I do with manual operation of the others. That is, one needs to point the M7 at what one wants to be 18% gray and then hold the shutter release half way to capture the exposure before framing and taking the photo. Granted, you can use the M7 in manual mode, but the advantages of the MP in terms of smooth shutter release and all shutter speeds available in case of battery failure give the MP a definite edge in manual operation.
During a trip to the Leica factory in 2004, the engineers there confirmed that the MP was a replacement for the M6 and M6TTL. The MP allegedly has some 150+ quality refinements over the M6 models. The view/rangefinder was probably the most obvious since the reduced flare/glare characteristics led to factory offers to convert other M models to the new system. Another is the rewind knob friction, which tends to prevent recoil of the film if you let go of the knob during rewind. Not a great advantage, but a worthwhile improvement.
Concerning the rewind knob, it's obvious that the M6s and M7s with the tiny flip out handle operate faster. They are also reasonably sturdy. I've read comments along the line that they have been used them for many years with only a failure or two. On the other hand, the factory had examples of early Ms that had been through fires and dropped from airplanes. The cameras were all useless, but the rewind knobs were still functional. I've never heard of a failure of an original style rewind knob.
Concerning the TTL issue, it means through the lens flash metering. You can set the flash for "TTL" and have it shut off when the internal camera meter decides the exposure is correct. If you don't have TTL, you set the flash to "auto" mode, input the ISO and f stop, and have the flash turn itself off when the exposure is correct. I can't see much advantage to the former unless you are using flash with a filter over the lens and you're too lazy to adjust the ISO for the filter factor. And to get TTL, you add complexity and 2.5mm to the height of the camera. All this for a camera/lens that is much better designed for available light than flash.
BTW, the M6TTL, M7 and MP have a 1 EV more sensitive meter than the M6.
As for the continuously variable shutter of the M7 in auto mode, you will not notice any difference for Leica shooting. If such exposure nuances are important to you, you should be shooting ala Ansel Adams and the zone system with a highly accurate and calibrated spot meter, taking multiple readings and minutes of preparation per exposure with a 4x5 or larger camera.
In summary, my experience is that the MP is the epitome of Leica M shooting. If you can afford it, go for it. Go for the M7 only if you analyze your needs and conclude you really need fast grab shooting in variable light conditions. If you're on a budget yet want an internal meter, try the M6TTL. If you can live without an external meter, try the M4-2 or M2. The Canadian made M4-2 has a lower relative collector value due to country of origin, but the quality is definitely up to or better than any German made model. The M2 might arguably be the best ever made, but it's age usually means a Clean, Lubricate, Adjust (CLA) is necessary. This could run some $200-300, depending on condition.
My MP, M7, and M6TTLs
Being somewhat of a collector, I have 7 M's: MP, M7, M6TTL (1 black and 1 silver), M4-2, M3, and M2. I like them all. The MP is my favorite overall. I use the M7 for quick "grab" shooting under highly variable light conditions. However, in most conditions, I spend as much if not more time fiddling with the M7 in AE mode than I do with manual operation of the others. That is, one needs to point the M7 at what one wants to be 18% gray and then hold the shutter release half way to capture the exposure before framing and taking the photo. Granted, you can use the M7 in manual mode, but the advantages of the MP in terms of smooth shutter release and all shutter speeds available in case of battery failure give the MP a definite edge in manual operation.
During a trip to the Leica factory in 2004, the engineers there confirmed that the MP was a replacement for the M6 and M6TTL. The MP allegedly has some 150+ quality refinements over the M6 models. The view/rangefinder was probably the most obvious since the reduced flare/glare characteristics led to factory offers to convert other M models to the new system. Another is the rewind knob friction, which tends to prevent recoil of the film if you let go of the knob during rewind. Not a great advantage, but a worthwhile improvement.
Concerning the rewind knob, it's obvious that the M6s and M7s with the tiny flip out handle operate faster. They are also reasonably sturdy. I've read comments along the line that they have been used them for many years with only a failure or two. On the other hand, the factory had examples of early Ms that had been through fires and dropped from airplanes. The cameras were all useless, but the rewind knobs were still functional. I've never heard of a failure of an original style rewind knob.
Concerning the TTL issue, it means through the lens flash metering. You can set the flash for "TTL" and have it shut off when the internal camera meter decides the exposure is correct. If you don't have TTL, you set the flash to "auto" mode, input the ISO and f stop, and have the flash turn itself off when the exposure is correct. I can't see much advantage to the former unless you are using flash with a filter over the lens and you're too lazy to adjust the ISO for the filter factor. And to get TTL, you add complexity and 2.5mm to the height of the camera. All this for a camera/lens that is much better designed for available light than flash.
BTW, the M6TTL, M7 and MP have a 1 EV more sensitive meter than the M6.
As for the continuously variable shutter of the M7 in auto mode, you will not notice any difference for Leica shooting. If such exposure nuances are important to you, you should be shooting ala Ansel Adams and the zone system with a highly accurate and calibrated spot meter, taking multiple readings and minutes of preparation per exposure with a 4x5 or larger camera.
In summary, my experience is that the MP is the epitome of Leica M shooting. If you can afford it, go for it. Go for the M7 only if you analyze your needs and conclude you really need fast grab shooting in variable light conditions. If you're on a budget yet want an internal meter, try the M6TTL. If you can live without an external meter, try the M4-2 or M2. The Canadian made M4-2 has a lower relative collector value due to country of origin, but the quality is definitely up to or better than any German made model. The M2 might arguably be the best ever made, but it's age usually means a Clean, Lubricate, Adjust (CLA) is necessary. This could run some $200-300, depending on condition.
eon
Established
The MP is the beautiful one of newer date.
But my advice is to get the M6 TTL.
It's reasonably new. It has the same quiet mechanical shutter as M6 and MP. And most importantly, it has the same large shutter dial as you gotten used to on M7, and it turns in the same direction too. You anticipated to get a digital Leica later on and there you have the larger dial again. So M6 TTL will be a better partner to a M8.
/Erik
But my advice is to get the M6 TTL.
It's reasonably new. It has the same quiet mechanical shutter as M6 and MP. And most importantly, it has the same large shutter dial as you gotten used to on M7, and it turns in the same direction too. You anticipated to get a digital Leica later on and there you have the larger dial again. So M6 TTL will be a better partner to a M8.
/Erik