ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
We used to have one or two critique threads every week. Five people uploaded photos and each particpant critiqued the other four particpants' photos.
But it hasn't happened for a month or more.
Is anybody interested in photos here, and we'll revive this feature? Or if we're more into bags and GAS we'll leave critiques to fade away?
But it hasn't happened for a month or more.
Is anybody interested in photos here, and we'll revive this feature? Or if we're more into bags and GAS we'll leave critiques to fade away?
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
I think seeing the usual suspects over a long time discouraged a lot of people from participating.
DavidH
Overweight and over here
Jon Claremont said:
Well as a G2 user, much of the gear related stuff is completely irrelevant to me...and the Contax forum is a fairly quiet place...so I spend most of my time browsing and commenting in the gallery - great for inspiration and to pick up hints on film types and what's achievable.
I'm very interested in the critique side...but am on the road so much that processing and scanning happens every 2-3 months - meaning I'm not in a position to join in that often...and when I am there'll be hundreds of shots...
Most of my photography - particularly work related - is digital SLR and has no place here...
FrankS
Registered User
This is just my OPINION so take it only as that:
Photorgaphy (and art) is subjective. What looks good to one may not to another and there is simply a difference of opinion. The way I see critiques working is if there is a "student" and a "teacher" where the student defers to the opinion of the teacher based on experience and ability (that last one is problematic). Between peers, it's just a difference of opinion. This happened very recently when rbiemer asked for votes on his photo of a dieing pointsettia plant that included a portion of a bright blue candle holder. (Rob explained what it was as it was not evident.) My opinion was that it was distracting, he felt the picture needed that shot of colour. Difference of opinion.
Photorgaphy (and art) is subjective. What looks good to one may not to another and there is simply a difference of opinion. The way I see critiques working is if there is a "student" and a "teacher" where the student defers to the opinion of the teacher based on experience and ability (that last one is problematic). Between peers, it's just a difference of opinion. This happened very recently when rbiemer asked for votes on his photo of a dieing pointsettia plant that included a portion of a bright blue candle holder. (Rob explained what it was as it was not evident.) My opinion was that it was distracting, he felt the picture needed that shot of colour. Difference of opinion.
Jocko
Off With The Pixies
I think Gabriel is right - to those not involved such threads might appear like a private party, and one is naturally reticent about intruding.
There is also a perhaps equally significant point. I imagine that most of us are dissatisfied with our photography. If we are not, then we ought to be. The problem with critiques is that most people naturally hope for approval - to be told that their work is not the miserable trash they secretly believe it might be.
I wonder if the best sort of critique thread might not demand self-criticism. A theme is chosen and people then submit a picture which has proved especially popular in their gallery (for example) and proceed to outline what they see as its faults. This could then lead to a general discussion of problems with the genre, or with attitudes to photography. There would be no need to criticise anyone else's work, but rather a desire to identify common problems and difficulties. If done with honesty and good spirit I think that all those participating would benefit significantly . We are, after all, our harshest critics. I would happily start such a thread, if there were any interest.
Ian
There is also a perhaps equally significant point. I imagine that most of us are dissatisfied with our photography. If we are not, then we ought to be. The problem with critiques is that most people naturally hope for approval - to be told that their work is not the miserable trash they secretly believe it might be.
I wonder if the best sort of critique thread might not demand self-criticism. A theme is chosen and people then submit a picture which has proved especially popular in their gallery (for example) and proceed to outline what they see as its faults. This could then lead to a general discussion of problems with the genre, or with attitudes to photography. There would be no need to criticise anyone else's work, but rather a desire to identify common problems and difficulties. If done with honesty and good spirit I think that all those participating would benefit significantly . We are, after all, our harshest critics. I would happily start such a thread, if there were any interest.
Ian
R
RML
Guest
Jocko, IMO your approach is a good one. I participated in a critique. The rules state to give constructive criticism, which frankly sometimes can be really difficult. Working the other way around as you suggest, puts the criticism at the shooter's side. That would make it easier for the viewers to be more frank about their opinions.
pesphoto
Veteran
For me the whole point of photography is doing it simply because I like doing it. I like when someone comments on my work in the gallery, even critically, but it's not why I shoot and post my photos.
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
I agree with all of the above.
Personally, I like the old critques for when a photo of mine which I think is pretty good gets very little attention elsewhere. The critique people would point out what I'd done wrong.
Personally, I like the old critques for when a photo of mine which I think is pretty good gets very little attention elsewhere. The critique people would point out what I'd done wrong.
FrankS
Registered User
I think the idea of a photographer presenting and criticising his/her own photo is a good way of beginning a critique.
back alley
IMAGES
Or if we're more into bags and GAS we'll leave critiques to fade away?
i am so tired of these cheap shots.
jon, please start your own forum so you have exactly what you want and then you can be somewhere that you really like instead of here with the gearheads.
as to the critiques...i participated in a couple and was mostly disappointed.
i post more of my stuff on my flickr account than here. i get more comments there than here.
joe
i am so tired of these cheap shots.
jon, please start your own forum so you have exactly what you want and then you can be somewhere that you really like instead of here with the gearheads.
as to the critiques...i participated in a couple and was mostly disappointed.
i post more of my stuff on my flickr account than here. i get more comments there than here.
joe
jan normandale
Film is the other way
back alley said:
Uh oh... what's happening here..
back alley
IMAGES
jan normandale said:
easy to explain jan, we have a few members here who like the cheap shot, for whatever reason. maybe they think they are being funny or cute or intelligent, but i find it less than amusing.
i think these people who have such a low regard for rff should start their own forum, a place of perfection where they can be funny and cute and intelligent all they like.
joe
steamer
Well-known
A little cranky Joe? Hang on winter doesn't last forever. The sun will shine and it will be warm again and all will be OK.
back alley
IMAGES
steamer said:
actually, i'm not cranky today.
but these cheap shots are annoying.
it's like people who show up at dinnertime everyday and then complain about the food.
if you don't like the food then try somewhere else.
and tomorrow is the first day of spring and 'they' are promising plus temps from today on!! yeah!!!!!!!!!
joe
steamer
Well-known
back alley said:
The name for people like that is ex-wife. (or husband as the case may be)
jan normandale
Film is the other way
Jon, lets start the critiques but bi weekly and incorporate some of the features suggested and give it a try. Maybe in stead of putting good shots in we put in shots that have had criticism or bad response. No one can be hurt too badly at that point. Then we could do a 'photo mechanic's review' giving thoughts and insights on the photograph that may have lead to the poor response ie analytic and thoughtful analysis of what could be detracting from the shot.
I think that postive feedback is more appropriate for the weekly pix thread.
I think that postive feedback is more appropriate for the weekly pix thread.
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lZr
L&M
I think we can make a sticky list of photogs asking for critique and run the list for a week per participant. I hope the list will be good if we have at least 20 photogs.
What do you think?
What do you think?
AusDLK
Famous Photographer
>I think seeing the usual suspects over a long time discouraged
>a lot of people from participating.
I agree here with Gabriel. I'm not sure if he means the same members over and over --or-- the same subject matter in the photos over and over (probably the former), but either way, I think he's right.
I participated in a few and did my best to offer serious critiques but in too many cases I didn't feel like much time was spent in offering critiques of my submissions. Occasionally I felt that I got some interesting insight but this was the exception.
This leads me to believe that photo critiques on this forum (and others) generally dissolve into "love fests" (for the lack of a better term) (i.e., "I love it", or "Great colors", or "Nicely seen" -- I hate that one) and there isn't really much of value offered back to the photographer.
I recently hired a successful, veteran fine art photographer whose work I respect to "ruthlessly" edit my web portfolio. It's something like this where the rubber truly meets the road.
>a lot of people from participating.
I agree here with Gabriel. I'm not sure if he means the same members over and over --or-- the same subject matter in the photos over and over (probably the former), but either way, I think he's right.
I participated in a few and did my best to offer serious critiques but in too many cases I didn't feel like much time was spent in offering critiques of my submissions. Occasionally I felt that I got some interesting insight but this was the exception.
This leads me to believe that photo critiques on this forum (and others) generally dissolve into "love fests" (for the lack of a better term) (i.e., "I love it", or "Great colors", or "Nicely seen" -- I hate that one) and there isn't really much of value offered back to the photographer.
I recently hired a successful, veteran fine art photographer whose work I respect to "ruthlessly" edit my web portfolio. It's something like this where the rubber truly meets the road.
back alley
IMAGES
few here are truly qualified to offer creative and constructive critique, myself included.
this is not meant as a criticism of the folks here btw.
i know when i see a pic that i like but can't always be specific about why or what exactly about the photo draws me in.
if i knew better i would be a better editor of my own work.
as to the former critiques done on my pics, i guess i had an expectation that wasn't met and therefore i was disappointed.
joe
this is not meant as a criticism of the folks here btw.
i know when i see a pic that i like but can't always be specific about why or what exactly about the photo draws me in.
if i knew better i would be a better editor of my own work.
as to the former critiques done on my pics, i guess i had an expectation that wasn't met and therefore i was disappointed.
joe
Ororaro
Well-known
Usually, the excellent photographs are just ignored by folks, in public forums. I find this unbelievable. The bad pics gets great comments while the truly great shots get no comment.
And every time I've given my honest advice (which is always), I always ended up being the bad guy. If it's not supposed to be a love festival, just don't bother giving true critique as it won't work.
Look at this site: www.innerimager.com. The introductory text makes you think the photog is truly an artist-the best there is. But the galleries slap you back to harsh reality. Of course, telling him his work needs refinement is useless.
Those guys who take themselves so seriously actually never enter such public contests nor do they ask for critique. They just post images and expect Wows without ever giving their thoughts to other posters.
The problems are many:
-Photographers trying to impress other photographers is useless and will never work. It's like setting up galleries just so that other photogs look at them. This translates to 0$ sales. And yet, 99% of the galleries are exactly just that.
-Photography as a hobby is the greatest thing. But I'm always getting itchy when I read things such as "my work blabla" where the word "work" is supposed to be a serious thing. The word work is seriously over estimated.
...
I'm not sure where I'm going with all tihs, but one thing is sure: Honest advice is never welcomed on internet forums. Just watch me getting flamed...
And every time I've given my honest advice (which is always), I always ended up being the bad guy. If it's not supposed to be a love festival, just don't bother giving true critique as it won't work.
Look at this site: www.innerimager.com. The introductory text makes you think the photog is truly an artist-the best there is. But the galleries slap you back to harsh reality. Of course, telling him his work needs refinement is useless.
Those guys who take themselves so seriously actually never enter such public contests nor do they ask for critique. They just post images and expect Wows without ever giving their thoughts to other posters.
The problems are many:
-Photographers trying to impress other photographers is useless and will never work. It's like setting up galleries just so that other photogs look at them. This translates to 0$ sales. And yet, 99% of the galleries are exactly just that.
-Photography as a hobby is the greatest thing. But I'm always getting itchy when I read things such as "my work blabla" where the word "work" is supposed to be a serious thing. The word work is seriously over estimated.
...
I'm not sure where I'm going with all tihs, but one thing is sure: Honest advice is never welcomed on internet forums. Just watch me getting flamed...