Again On The Issue Of Kiev Lubrication

[ruben]

Upon a talk I held with a high conossieur of high tech and low tech devices lubrication I could deepen a bit my no-knowledge on this controversial issue.

But let's start with Mr Scherer, who states in his site he uses 3 types of grease and 2 types of oil. Indeed, as much as I deepen my knowledge with the Kievs, the more I see that both oil and grease should be used, according to the different parts of the camera.

According to my conosieur, oil that doesn't migrate, used today in many types of devices such as some specific parts of computer servers, is very very rare and highly exensive to the limits of practicability. Synthetic grease that doesn't stiffen - the same.

So what to do? My conossieur (BTW Marc A, am I spelling this word correctly ?) laughed and urged me to do what everyone does and use the common available materials, unless I am ready to spend some 50 bucks or more for a spry can of magic oil, after chasing the right thing, which most of the chances are it will happen at the second time (= $ 100).

Now today I had the chance to walk around the city and give a look to some small clock repairing shops. Are these guys whose shop is falling apart, really buying these high sofysticated and expensive lubricants? Hmmm, it doesn't look like. Perhaps in big and high class clock repair shops, they are using and you are expected to pay accordingly, as you are expected to pay at Mr Scherer for his master work.

Therefore my practical conclusions, so far, are:

a) Give more emphasys on the cleaning of the mechanism.

b) Use very small, really small, amounts of oil and grease afterwards.

c) Clean, but don't lubricate Kievs you are not using currently, since the grease will stiffen much more quickly in a still standing Kiev, than in a Kiev you are using. Perhaps for sleeping clean Kievs, sythetic cheap evaporating oil may help, for their better dreams.

d) For Kievs in use, the isue of adjusting the right tension after CLA, becomes more acute for having it softly and accurate.
And as I have written somewhere before, after CLA and tensioning/distensioning, your Kiev is to be followed up, since with time and use it achieves a different and better inner harmony, making a second test of shutter speeds something to perform from time to time, and upon your results you should act.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[varjag]

Ruben, there are lots of affordable, quality, synthetic greases available, like Shell Aerospace series, Soviet/Russian ЦИАТИМ-221, Texaco high-load greases etc. It should be possible to source some of them: some are sold in retail, but most of them used widely and in generous amounts in all sorts of industrial applications.

 

[ruben]

Fine Eugene, now where the lonely RFF member is going to find "Shell Aerospace series" for example ? How much is he going to pay after some months of chasing after it, and is it the right one - why ?

It is not as easy, for the one who doesn't work at the aerospace industry.

My common sense tells me - don't go crazy. This doesn't mean we should go for old Singer sewing machine oil. Synthetic oil - fine !

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[varjag]

Ruben, it is not necessarily aerospace industry. In ex-USSR such greases often sold in car service shops, and in the industry they are used anywhere when there is high friction, high temperatures combined with high load. All sorts of gearboxes, at power stations, production lines, military, etc.

 

[Trius]

I know nothing about the subject at hand and cannot follow all the repair topics in RFF, much lesson the entire internet, but ...

Ruben, as you accumulate experience and knowledge about the Kiev, its repair and maintenance, I would suggest writing a website (or at least an FAQ) as a result of your education. You are doing a service here (with the help of good RFF members such as Eugene et al), but spreading the wisdom further is always a good thing!

Earl

 

[ruben]

My bottom line in this thread is that we can have Kievs performing at the highest technical levels, without the issue of sophysticated lubricants standding in our way, via upgrading ourselves to basic CLA, continuos use of our camera, and testing from time to time.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[Xmas]

Ruben

If you are cleaning the iris blades and you use a material with a high vapour content it could migrate from the blades to the inner lens surfaces next to the blades, and cause fog. You would need to strip again and clean and reassemble with a different lube.

Dont take lenses apart is the easy solution, if you have a frozen iris re-assemble it dry.

The Kiev shutter module has has FSU grease for 25 years or more so a modern low migration grease will be like feather bed by comparison.

If you have a component apart then you can get grease into a bearing or bush area, but you need to strip completely for this, and use a solvent or vibration cleaning technique.

All I do is brush on zippo & operate the part to remove as much as possible of the FSU grease (now wax) and add a drip of PTFE liquid. This works ok for the slow speed escapments, they are the most critical. They make the sneeze noise at slow speeds.

This will leave abrasive in place and the PTFE will mix with the residual wax to form a resonable substitute for the origional grease.

I leave the focus mechanism dry this reduces the possibility of grit getting in and staying in, the brass mechanism will run dry.

I've got a Kiev that is rusting so badly that I will need to strip and zippo it a second time to remove as much of the rust as possible.

Noel