Киев 4 meter adjustment

[MNS]

I'm planning to use my late fathers Kiev 4 circa 1975. The camera fully working, serviced around six years ago but I noticed the meter is out a couple of stops.



I have used it once a little over two years ago and found a tad quirky in it's operation, the way you have to grip it and the annoying infinity lock but it is a very nice camera to use. I found although meter does work, it is around a couple of stops out and reading a downloaded manual for this camera I hadn't realised there is an adjustment screw for the meter on the back of the meter housing.


Has anyone adjusted the meter on one of these cameras before? ...I'm a little nervous to move it on a fifty year old Soviet camera!

 

[Valkir1987]

The selenium cells are often still good/okay. But, the carbon resistor wears out quickly on these camera because the pressure of the contact is too high. You can move the contact relative to the meter dial one or two stops, but it requires disassembly of the metering knob to the left.

The screw on the back only moves the scale that matches the needle back and forth by about 0.5 stop. There is no electric adjustment there, just mechanical.

 

[MNS]

Thanks, in that case, think I'll stick to my Weston Euromaster V.

 

[Coldkennels]

Thanks, in that case, think I'll stick to my Weston Euromaster V.

You're much better off with the Weston even if the Kiev meter works.

On-camera meters like that typically read far too large an area and lead to underexposure due to incorporating the sky into the reading. The Contax design included that flap to try to shield the selenium cell enough to mitigate this, but on the Kiev 4, something was changed in the design that means the flap isn't enough (I forget the exact details right now). Best practice is usually to point the camera downwards, making the top-mounted readout hard to read correctly.

 

[MNS]

You're much better off with the Weston even if the Kiev meter works.

On-camera meters like that typically read far too large an area and lead to underexposure due to incorporating the sky into the reading. The Contax design included that flap to try to shield the selenium cell enough to mitigate this, but on the Kiev 4, something was changed in the design that means the flap isn't enough (I forget the exact details right now). Best practice is usually to point the camera downwards, making the top-mounted readout hard to read correctly.

Funny enough you saying about pointing the camera down, I did notice by pointing the camera down around 45 degrees I would get a reading that near enough matched my Weston meter.

 

[WoodallP]

You're much better off with the Weston even if the Kiev meter works.

On-camera meters like that typically read far too large an area and lead to underexposure due to incorporating the sky into the reading. The Contax design included that flap to try to shield the selenium cell enough to mitigate this, but on the Kiev 4, something was changed in the design that means the flap isn't enough (I forget the exact details right now). Best practice is usually to point the camera downwards, making the top-mounted readout hard to read correctly.

I think I have pointed down with every inbuilt-meter camera I have ever had 🙂 Old habits die hard!

 

[wlewisiii]

My favorite fix has always been my Sekonic L-308 😉

 

[Godfrey]

I mostly use one of my hand-held meters (Sekonic L328, L358, or L478, acquired over a 20 year period!) in incident reading mode, but when I do use a clip on meter, it's usually with the Leica MR-4. This meter's active area corresponds to a 90mm lens full field of view, so to use it accurately, I just use the frame line selector lever on my Ms to move to the 90mm frame lines when metering. Very accurate results that way!

G

 

[Valkir1987]

When they made the Kiev 4. They restyled the camera in the Contax IIa and IIIa style, but kept the old mechanics, front and shutter dial. They changed the back and the locks, the top, meter and rewind button. In the Contax IIIa the exposure meter works mechanically, and arm turns the spool until the needle matches the reading. Arsenal just made the top smaller, using the old style electronics for the meter.

I always use a separate meter when shooting rangefinders. (Or any camera with a meter I do not trust) People tend to prefer the meterless versions of the Contax and Kiev nowadays.

The Contax/Kiev being produced on Zeiss machinery is probably the longest production run of a camera (with minor changes) ever. The shutter was difficult to assemble and did not leave much room for alterations. When developing a SLR shortly before the war, Zeiss engineers where more or less forced to use this type of shutter because of its status. Barely leaving room for the mirror and prism. They where 'forced' to start from scratch when this shutter was taken to Arsenal. Zeiss Dresden made the Contax SLR and Zeiss Oberkochen the Contax IIa and IIIa both using completely new shutters.

 

[MNS]

I always use a separate meter when shooting rangefinders.

Same here, even when I'm using my M-P (Typ240) I carry a meter with me. Just thought I'd give the Kiev meter a try, seeing as it works.

Anyway, just found another issue with this Kiev 4 camera. My Ilford FP3 cassettes which I use for my bulk Foma, don't quite fit. Base plate when closed jams the cassette tight. Tried various ways to lessen tension but the cassette so tight the advancing gears tear through the sprocket holes of the film.

My Shirley Wellard's do not fit this camera and I don't really want to buy preloaded film. Before anyone suggests, I hate those cheap plastic reloadable cassettes as I find they scratch Foma film.

Shame really.

 

[Valkir1987]

Tried various ways to lessen tension but the cassette so tight the advancing gears tear through the sprocket holes of the film.

I had this once with a Kiev 4 which had a paint job, the locks of the back were put back together in the wrong order. Resulting in too much pressure on the spool. If the back of the camera has not been dropped, there should be no pressure on the spool.

 

[Joao]

Same here, even when I'm using my M-P (Typ240) I carry a meter with me. Just thought I'd give the Kiev meter a try, seeing as it works.

Anyway, just found another issue with this Kiev 4 camera. My Ilford FP3 cassettes which I use for my bulk Foma, don't quite fit. Base plate when closed jams the cassette tight. Tried various ways to lessen tension but the cassette so tight the advancing gears tear through the sprocket holes of the film.

My Shirley Wellard's do not fit this camera and I don't really want to buy preloaded film. Before anyone suggests, I hate those cheap plastic reloadable cassettes as I find they scratch Foma film.

Shame really.

Those "cheap plastic reloadable cassettes" are not all made equal. Maybe worth trying another brand.
Or, as I do often , consider this option
Fomapan 100 Classic Set | 6 films 35mm 36 exposures on spool and one 35mm cartridge

I am a regular Fomapan user, I prefer this to bulk-loading. No lost frames at the extremities of the roll

Regards
Joao

 

[popavvakum]

Same here, even when I'm using my M-P (Typ240) I carry a meter with me. Just thought I'd give the Kiev meter a try, seeing as it works.

Anyway, just found another issue with this Kiev 4 camera. My Ilford FP3 cassettes which I use for my bulk Foma, don't quite fit. Base plate when closed jams the cassette tight. Tried various ways to lessen tension but the cassette so tight the advancing gears tear through the sprocket holes of the film.

My Shirley Wellard's do not fit this camera and I don't really want to buy preloaded film. Before anyone suggests, I hate those cheap plastic reloadable cassettes as I find they scratch Foma film.

Shame really.

I guess you may try something like:

Double Cylinder Curtain Cassette Contax Type Film 35mm Kiev Zorki Fed Zenit etc. | eBay UK

Good working order. I may not have described everything, but I've tried to show it by photographing and filming. I have tried to show it all in photos and in videos.

www.ebay.co.uk

i am not endorsing the vendor though - the price seems too high and you need to look out for any deformations of those soft metal cassettes - but these were in use for Soviet bulk films.

 

[Valkir1987]

You can check the locks with this picture, they should look like this on the inside. I've seen them flipped after a previous assembly. A better re loadable film canister is a good idea though.

 

[MNS]

You can check the locks with this picture, they should look like this on the inside. I've seen them flipped after a previous assembly. A better re loadable film canister is a good idea though.

Mine is a 1975 model - serial number 7533415, so I think that's right. My locks are slightly different design to your camera back.





Mine looks like a different design. Problem is many different refinements and changes where made during production over the years at the Arsenal factory in Kiev. The pins in the locks stand prouder than yours and have a thicker base. You'll note the film back pressure plate is fitted the opposite way to yours.

I found the film cassette gets stuck on the left hand lock when you open the camera back, which explains why the film doesn't leave the cassette.

 

[Coldkennels]

i am not endorsing the vendor though - the price seems too high and you need to look out for any deformations of those soft metal cassettes - but these were in use for Soviet bulk films.

I am a big fan of "labyrinthine" cassettes and use them with every camera I can (which means I own a lot of the damn things).

One thing I will note is that there's a bunch of cassettes that follow this design and look the same but most definitely are not cross-compatible.

All of these cassettes are positioned with the openable slot facing downwards, but the tab which holds them in place in the camera are all in different locations - and, more importantly, so are the activation pins:



The Zorki and FED cassettes were sold to me by an eBay seller from the former Soviet Union some years back as "Kiev cassettes". They're definitely not. The FED one is clearly marked as such, so I realised it wouldn't work in the Kiev. The Zorki one has the KMZ logo on the side, but I thought it was worth a go in the Kiev. It kinda-sorta-almost fits, but doesn't work correctly. The Zeiss cassette on the right - a 540/1 - is the only one which works correctly in all Kievs (and, as a bonus, it also works in Contaflexes as well as the Contax rangefinders). Considering the cost of all of these cassettes and how clearly the Zeiss ones are marked, I'd look for the Zeiss ones instead of trying to find a proper Kiev one and hoping the seller hasn't got something mixed up. You can also use them in the take-up side of everything before the Kiev 4AM and run the camera with cassette-to-cassette operation, which is nice.

(Also, as a bonus WTF, even the FED and Zorki ones aren't cross-compatible - the activations pins are swapped over and the locating lugs are designed differently. FEDs and Zorkis only started using cassettes like this after the two lines separated after the war, and no one bothered to make sure they used the same ones!)

 

[MNS]

Thank you everyone for the information you've all posted regarding this little problem.

I didn't think I had any preloaded film and had forgotten I still have some expired Fuji Sensia 100, Circa 2006. Once defrosted, I have found this Fuji cassette fits perfectly in the Kiev 4. If you look at the picture below, you can see the problem of why the Ilford reloadable cassettes jam in this camera.



The FP3 cassette spool head is smaller than the Fujifilm cassette and I found the same for the Fomapan cassette I have in my camera display case. I think short annoying answer, is for this camera to be used it's got to be with preloaded purchased film. Never occurred to me they where different sizes. Think these Ilford cassettes I use date from the 1950s and 1960s.

The Ilford FP3 cassettes fit my film Leica's I had, my late fathers M3, Praktica MTL5, my Nikon FE, Nikkormat FT2 and Zorki 4K.

In the mean time this camera will reside with the collection on display in the dinning room.



Edit: incidentally, looking at these cassettes you posted Coldkennels, I don't think any of those would fit the Kiev 4 I have. Think the Soviets just liked being different from the West. I didn't think this camera was an export model due the Cyrillic writing on the top plate, maybe it is or this camera has been fitted with a different back than what it was originally supplied with.

 

[Coldkennels]

Edit: incidentally, looking at these cassettes you posted Coldkennels, I don't think any of those would fit the Kiev 4 I have. Think the Soviets just liked being different from the West. I didn't think this camera was an export model due the Cyrillic writing on the top plate, maybe it is or this camera has been fitted with a different back than what it was originally supplied with.

There's two variations on the baseplate locks. Earlier Kievs don't have the "surround" for the central pin that yours does. Based on the Kievs I've got lying around here, it looks like yours was probably the first year of the switch. My '74 Kiev 4 doesn't have them, but everything from 1975 does.



(1974 Kiev 4 back on the right, 1982 Kiev 4AM back on the left - I should also note the Kiev 4 on the right is a "domestic" model with all-Cyrillic markings)

Either way, the Zeiss cassette fits and operates perfectly in every Kiev I've tested it with - even the 4AM. If you're a bulk-loader like me they're the best option by far.

 

[MNS]

Have you found these backs interchange between models?

 

[Muggins]

Thank you everyone for the information you've all posted regarding this little problem.

I didn't think I had any preloaded film and had forgotten I still have some expired Fuji Sensia 100, Circa 2006. Once defrosted, I have found this Fuji cassette fits perfectly in the Kiev 4. If you look at the picture below, you can see the problem of why the Ilford reloadable cassettes jam in this camera.

View attachment 4868605

The FP3 cassette spool head is smaller than the Fujifilm cassette and I found the same for the Fomapan cassette I have in my camera display case. I think short annoying answer, is for this camera to be used it's got to be with preloaded purchased film. Never occurred to me they where different sizes. Think these Ilford cassettes I use date from the 1950s and 1960s.

The Ilford FP3 cassettes fit my film Leica's I had, my late fathers M3, Praktica MTL5, my Nikon FE, Nikkormat FT2 and Zorki 4K.

In the mean time this camera will reside with the collection on display in the dinning room.

View attachment 4868607

Edit: incidentally, looking at these cassettes you posted Coldkennels, I don't think any of those would fit the Kiev 4 I have. Think the Soviets just liked being different from the West. I didn't think this camera was an export model due the Cyrillic writing on the top plate, maybe it is or this camera has been fitted with a different back than what it was originally supplied with.

View attachment 4868609

Nice collection! Not many Duo 620s around