18mm's color shift

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RobertB

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I'm planning to buy a 18mm lens this weekend.
Today I tried both the leica and zeiss on my m8. Both withoud UV/IR filter and the zeiss non coded (offcourse, its brand new) to get a better view on the performances before making the choise.

I expected color shift at the zeiss, but I can not see any (only shot indoors).
however, on the coded leica the edge of the picture looks more red.
Is this the colourshift?

The camera was set at on + UV/IR.

Is this normal for the leica, or is it the colour shift?
The camera say's its an 18mm lens, so it must detect the lens.

Zeiss 18mm picture, looks okey
L1011125.jpg


Leica 18mm (see the red glow at the left side...)
L1011126.jpg
 
And, can this be a problem with one lens?
I tried the 18mm s elmar in germany last december, and did not had any problems with red colors oid.
 
Hi Rob,

Did you use color auto balance? The lens is Ok! It´s the M8 sensor.
Each manufacturer is different, some lenses are cool rendering, others neutral and yet others are warm. Factors such as type of glass used, lens focal length, coating, ... should be taken into accounted.

Regards,
Robert
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Hi Robert (nice name btw ;) )

I did use auto balance. I know the leica's give another color that the zeiss lenses.
However, Should this not count for the entire picture?
looking at the steel windowframe, the centre is normal coloured, but the left side is more red.

I found some articles on the internet that the M9 can have red glow at the sides to. But I don't see any M8 with it..
 
The problem is due to the extreme angle of view of the lens, the bending of the light rays that hit the sensor. The fact the Zeiss 18mm dosn't exhibit the problem on the M8 is remarcable.

Best,
Robert
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I have the 18mm Zeiss and tested it against the Leica 18mm Super-Elmar and found no difference between them. Even the OOF areas were rendered virtually the same. The Zeiss is coded to read as a Super-Elmar.

Since you had the camera set to read the lens with the IR/Cut filter, I would have expected to see something like this on the Zeiss. Be that as it may, it might simply be the shot. I have found, with the M8 in particular, certain shots do strange things because of particular lighting, or whatever.

Because the 18mm Zeiss performs so well compared to the Leica I passed on buying the Leica - this is the only non-Leica lens in my 9-lens arsenal.
 
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rlouzan said:
The problem is due to the extreme angle of view of the lens, the bending of the light rays that hit the sensor. The fact the Zeiss 18mm dosn't exhibit the problem on the M8 is remarcable.

Remember, the M8 uses a cropped sensor. The extreme edges of the angle of view will not be recorded. The Zeiss 18mm becomes a 24mm on the M8.
Click to expand...
 
Robert,

Did you shoot wide open? Could also be the lighting fixtures/auto white balance (the two pictures are taken at different angles).
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Yes they are wide open.
I took 4 pictuers, 2x angle one, and 2x angle two. The salesman is really big in focus at the two other shots, so I did not want to put those pictures online. So there are two different angles.
But also at the other two shots, the result is the same (zeiss clean, and leica with red left side).

@Bill, I know the difference is only the price. But I really like the focus tab on the leica's, and the fact that I don't need extra coding or drawing a code.
But I have to say these shots really make me doubting again big time. For the same amount of money I can even buy an extra 35/2 biogon.
 
I would go back and try again, outside. Then buy the one with no red edges. If the Zeiss, then so be it.

Of course you can always fix it with a cyan radial gradient filter in photoshop. But why spend money on a lens that needs extra correction?

Further if you get an M9, the problem may be worse.
 
RobertB said:
@Bill, I know the difference is only the price. But I really like the focus tab on the leica's, and the fact that I don't need extra coding or drawing a code. But I have to say these shots really make me doubting again big time. For the same amount of money I can even buy an extra 35/2 biogon.
Click to expand...

I too like the way the Leica handles better compared to the Zeiss (I also prefer the tab). At just over double the price, the Leica would have to show at least some performance improvement over the Zeiss; but as hard as I tried to find a difference, there is none - at least not one that is discernable to me.

Buy the Zeiss, then remove the lens flange and mail it to John Milich. Once it comes back a few weeks later, screw the flange back onto the lens and paint (permanently) the 6-code into the mount and your done. John also makes a flange designed for this lens. Buy that and you won’t be without use of the lens in the interim.
 
You could have a camera repair shop add a pin like the one in the 16mm Hologon

http://www.zeisshistorica.org/Images/Hologon%202.jpg

Quote:
I know the difference is only the price. But I really like the focus tab on the leica's, and the fact that I don't need extra coding or drawing a code.

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FS: Hand Made Leather Camera wrist Straps
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/phot...ate/1248809875
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sensor white balance

sensor white balance

One explanation could be that the camera's white balance is neutralizing the display case's fluorescent light source, depending on which way the camera is pointed and how much of the scene is illuminated by this light source. In one photo, the camera view includes some daylight on the left; with the other photo, the view shows mostly display case, which is predominantly illuminated by fluorescent light. Thus, the camera's WB is compensating for the lack of magenta/red or green. To test this theory, turn the camera upside down and make the same set of photos of the display case. If the color shift on the edge remains on the same side as the previous photos, you may have a sensor/angle problem. If it now appears on the opposite side, then it may be an effect of the WB.
 
The issue with the coded Leica lens is that you did not use the IR filter, yet you told the camera that you were. Thus the camera corrected for the expected cyan drift in the corners by applying some red correction. There you have it.

Since the Zeiss lens was not coded, the camera made no correction, and absent the IR filter, none was needed. Thus it looks ok.

Below a Zeiss 18mm Distagon 6-bit coded (as a Super Elmar) through DAG, with UV/IR filter, M8 set to On+UV/IR:
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Okey, thanks all for the information.

I'm not to keen on modifying a lens myself (or someone else) because of the lost warranty.

I go visit the store again and take some outdoor/ indoor shots with the UV/Ir filter attached.
I don't think its an angle/ sensor problem because I used another 18mm S elmar before without any problems.

So its really up to, do I want to spent the extra money.. Decisions decisions. :)
 
Hi Robert - You can temporarily code the Zeiss lens yourself with a Sharpie (or other pen/marker that will write on plastic or metal). And you will need a template for where the marks should go. These marks work fine, and can be cleaned off easily.
 
Doug said:
Hi Robert - You can temporarily code the Zeiss lens yourself with a Sharpie (or other pen/marker that will write on plastic or metal). And you will need a template for where the marks should go. These marks work fine, and can be cleaned off easily.
Click to expand...

Yes i know, someone elso told me so in another topic.
Tried it on my CV 35mm with a template from the internet (cut out in paper) but the camera did not recognize it. Have to try it again I think.

If it works ok, and I got more skills in doing it, its a great solution.
 
RobertB said:
... I'm not to keen on modifying a lens myself (or someone else) because of the lost warranty...
Click to expand...

It's simple: Buy the John Milich flange. That way if you ever need to use the Zeiss warranty, you can simply reinstall the original flange and mail it in for service. This is precisely what I did - for the very same reason.
 
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