1950s Europe, Nikon RF popular?

[xayraa33]

Just wandering if any of our european RFF (older) members, would know If the mid to very late fifties Nikon RF models sold well in western europe,IE: would a well to do western european of that time, have chosen an SP over a Leica M3 say or an S2 over a Contax IIa. I realize that most peoples income was not as high in western europe of the 1950s as was in the 1950s USA,& WW II was a near very close memory, but would european pride override the choosing of a quality japanese camera over a quality german one say. if they were in the market for a camera in the high price bracket in those times?

 

[FrankS]

I'm afraid that I can't be of any help, but I will hazard a guess that spending that (large) amount of money would have been done very conservatively, and most Western Europeans would have gone with a proven performer, either Leica or Contax. The vast majority of Nikon RF cameras would have been sold to the Japanese domestic market and to the US. Just my guess, though.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

I don't know what you're trying to find out by the answer, but I know this much, although I don't have my sources handy: most of the production right after WWII up until the mid or late 50s, it would go to the U.S. So I don't know if by the availability in Europe of the Leica M vs. "nonLeica" would be of any value as far as consumer preference or purchase power. It was more of an availability issue.

 

[kiev4a]

It is my understanding the Nikons (and Japanese cameras in general) got attenion first in the U.S. when American photographers discovered them while covering the Korean War. Therefore, I suspect most of the Japanese camera market was in the U.S. In addition, I suspect there would have been more bias in Western Europe toward Leica, Contax and the like. I don't think the Japanese really got into the European markets until the late 1960s or early'70s.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I saw the Beatles photography exhibit in the Smithsonian Museum of History and Technology, and noticed the Beatles Publicity Manager used an SP and a lot of the photographs taking pictures of the Beatles were using SP's. I had my S3 at the exhibit, but Photography was not allowed.

 

[xayraa33]

I am trying to find out if the Nikon RFs sold well or at all in western europe of the 1950s , I know that by the early 60s the Nikon F was a big hit in Western europe also, J.J Silber sold a lot of Canons in the UK (leaf shutter cameras mostly)around the the early 60s . I tend to agree with you Frank, but I would think Nikon would would have had some distributors in most western european nations of the 1950s.

 

[Socke]

Judging what I and my friends inherited most used fixed lens cameras from Agfa, Kodak, Voigtländer, Zeiss Ikon and so on. My father and grandfather were grafics artists and did product shots so they used salvaged 6x9 folders from just after the war to the mid 50s and Rolleiflex TLRs later. In the 60s my grandfather used a Zeiss Ikon Contessa 35mm and my father a Robot Royal 35 for travel and family pics, for serious work two Rolleiflex TLRs with Tessars on location and a Linhof 13x18 in the studio.
I think around 1956 my grandfather bought a Leica IIIf with a Summar which he never liked. I traded it against a Contax T-VS, the Leica sat unused in a cupboard for more than 40 years and was "mint" except for any parts which should move 🙂
One of my friends has a Leica IIIA his grandfather bought during the war and a IIIG which must be from 1957/8, those were properly used and regularly CLA'd and work quite well.

So I think above the affordable fixed lens 35mm it was mostly Leica with the occasional Robot thrown in for good measure. But I knew more people who used medium format Rolleiflex.

 

[xayraa33]

Speaking of the Beatles, Brian , I love that by the canal scene in" A Hard Days Night "(the movie) with Ringo and that black Pentax Spotmatic . Something goes in the water? was it the Pentax?

 

[xayraa33]

So I would gather that Nikon RFs were not popular in Western Europe in the 1950s. from what you say Socke, Europeans prefered western european cameras & made do with a lot of older cameras, at that, because of cost.

 

[VinceC]

For what it's worth, I attended a lot of camera swap meets (Fotoboersen) in Germany in the late 1980s through mid-1990s, and Nikon RFs were pretty rare. By contrast, the place was awash in Nikon Fs and Nikomats and, of course, Leicas. There was only one Munich-based dealer who regularly had RFs, and then it was only in ones or twos -- he sold me my S2 and S3 and my 85mm and a few accessories. He never had an SP, so I had to get mine shipped from New York. Much of what I saw and bought had EP markings, meaning it had originated in the U.S. military exchange system when new. My S3 and 85mm are both EP versions. GIs were and are very mobile and global, so it would be pretty typical for someone to buy a camera in Japan or Korea then end up some years later in Germany where he or she would trade it in for a new-fangled SLR model. Also, if Nikons were featured in the exchanges in Asia, they very likely were also featured in Europe because of their affordable prices compared to the German models. Back in the mid-1980s, before the Nikon RF collector market really took off, I remember a photo magazine columnist recommending that visitors to Great Britain bring Nikon RF gear with them from the States to trade for Leicas and other European gear, because the Nikons were fairly rare and so commanded higher prices. I know I paid a bit of a premium -- possibly 20 to 25 percent -- for my S2 and S3 compared to prices at the time in the States. But that was pre-Internet, so my only other option was to await the airmail delivery of Shutterbug, then call around to the New York dealers at transatlantic phone rates of $2 per minute.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Hard Day's Night: I remember the scene with Ringo going out to "Find Himself", setting the camera on a rock to take a self-portrait with the cable release, and the camera going into the water. It was a Pentax.

 

[Jacob]

I am far to young to remember the 50'ies, but i often use my fathers old S2 that he bought in Sweden 1955. All though I know he bought it from a japanese colleague visiting Sweden and this guy had several new Nikons with him to sell as a way to finance his stay. I remember that my father was rather proud of his camera that probably was a little unique. He liked to be modern and might have regarded the german brands old fashioned in comparison, even though the M3 might be seen as more advanced or evolved than the S2.

If You look at the classic camera market in Scandinavia, japanese RFs are very rare but early japanese SLRs are quite common. I think that the Japanese saw their chance and threw themselves into western Europe with their reflexes while the Germans tried to make copies of the copiers new cameras.

Many that I meet here in Sweden look at my camera and say "... oh, an old Contax." Thats how common the Nikons were...

 

[furcafe]

As others have already pointed, most Japanese exports of consumer goods from the end of WWII through the 1980s (indeed to the present day) went to the U.S. Another thing to keep in mind is that Nikon didn't make that many RFs, period, as compared to their competitors (Leitz, Zeiss Ikon, Canon, etc.), which is 1 major reason why they cost so much today. Nikon may have made their intitial reputation w/RFs, but it was the F series SLRs that really established them in the photographic big leagues. The only famous "Western European" photographer I know who used Nikon RFs was Robert Capa in the last few years of his life, & that was probably because he had done some work in Japan, was covering the war in Indochina, & they were similar to the Contax RFs he had been using for 20 years.

 

[VinceC]

Yes, the Nikon RFs are almost all scarce.
My recollection, without a reference in front of me, is that about 23,000 SPs were produced (plus another 2,000 from the recent special run) and only about 14,000 S3s (plus another 2,000 from the S3-2000 production run).

That's not a lot of 48-year-old cameras to choose from. The limited-edition special production runs actually add more than 10 percent to the total in existance.

The S2s are a lot more common -- something like 60,000 or so were made. The S's aren't quite as plentiful but tend to be somewhat cheaper because they're not as easy to use with their squinty old-fashioned viewfinders.

So the only the S2 is both fairly obtainable and usable (but it only has a frameline for the 50mm lens).

 

[CameraQuest]

Nikon was not officially imported into Europe until about 1967. Nippon Kogaku practically never tried to sell Nikon Rangefinders in Europe. As a result, they are generally rare and expensive in Europe, even more than the US. Zeiss Ikon successfully stopped Nippon Kogaku from selling the Nikon F in Europe for awhile, during which time the Nikon F was marketed as the Nikkor F in Europe. Leica throughly dominated the post war rangefinder market, until the Nikon SP (introduced in 1957). With the SP, Nikon had arguably produced a better camera that was more vesatile for the professional, even though the Leica M's still far outsold the SP.

Stephen Gandy