1991 Jupiter 8

WoodallP

WoodallP

Pragmatist Barnack lover
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Hi, apologies if in wrong place or a thread exists but I will make the newbe defence.

I recently picked up four «*new old stock*» J8 lens blocks. In original packaging and case, with passport. These lenses have a 91 serial number and the passport is dated 1991! These blocks are totally «*new*» and I have mounted one in a 60s LTM mount (since sold) and a Kiev/Contax body with my Amedeo adapter. Both were very sharp on my M10 after correct shimming.

So the question is, what were these made for, surely J8 production was finished by 91. kiev had passed to Helios 103 some years earlier and I think all other RFs were finished. Would the collapsing USSR really have continued manufacture for repairing old cameras?

Does anyone have the answer? Is Brian Sweeny out there with the solution?

If this isn’t the right place for the question please advise.

Thanks

Phil W
 
Basically you asked question why Soviet collapesed.
It collapsed, one of the reasons, because manufacturing was not part of free business, but just because, without planning.
It collapsed, because, one of the reasons, things were stolen in huge numbers. And by 91 things were kept stolen ieven more.
For example one of exFSU persona now one of the oil barons started his capital by simply stoling entire train of oil.
Case was open, but by this time justice was already for sale.
So, lens blocks could be made just because. Or focus blocks were also made, but stolen and sold as bare metal.
I had J-12 from 1991 couple of years ago...
 
Ko.Fe. said:
Basically you asked question why Soviet collapesed.
It collapsed, one of the reasons, because manufacturing was not part of free business, but just because, without planning.
It collapsed, because, one of the reasons, things were stolen in huge numbers. And by 91 things were kept stolen ieven more.
For example one of exFSU persona now one of the oil barons started his capital by simply stoling entire train of oil.
Case was open, but by this time justice was already for sale.
So, lens blocks could be made just because. Or focus blocks were also made, but stolen and sold as bare metal.
I had J-12 from 1991 couple of years ago...
Click to expand...

Ehm!, thanks for that though, I will have to mull it over, but my question was more along the lines of why Jupiter 8, Sonnar type lens blocks were made long after LTM and Kiev camera manufacture had been suspended. Perhaps you were tying to say that organisational inertia kept manufacturing going in one factory when the parallel process of mount manufacture had been stopped in another or the two processes had become detached.

Phil W
 
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WoodallP said:
Ehm!, thanks for that though, I will have to mull it over, but my question was more along the lines of why Jupiter 8, Sonnar type lens blocks were made long after LTM and Kiev camera manufacture had been suspended. Perhaps you were tying to say that organisational inertia kept manufacturing going in one factory when the parallel process of mount manufacture had been stopped in another or the two processes had become detached.

Phil W
Click to expand...

I think Konstantin was actually answering your question well, but maybe some was lost in translation.
I think the point he was making was because of the Communist system, and because of corruption, many things were maybe being manufactured, not because there was a need or use for them, but because it kept people busy and corrupt officials could profit from it.

At least that is what I think Konstantin was saying.
Not everyone here speaks English as their native language, so it's important to remember that.
 
In the old Soviet Union, there used to be a saying, "Without vodka it makes no sense." Perhaps that applies here as well but glad it worked out for you. Joe
 
WoodallP said:
Ehm!, thanks for that though, I will have to mull it over, but my question was more along the lines of why Jupiter 8, Sonnar type lens blocks were made long after LTM and Kiev camera manufacture had been suspended. Perhaps you were tying to say that organisational inertia kept manufacturing going in one factory when the parallel process of mount manufacture had been stopped in another or the two processes had become detached.

Phil W
Click to expand...

Just because the J-8 lens block had a serial number that denotes a 1991 year of issue does not mean they were totally made that year.

By 1980 I don't think the Zorki 4K was made anymore and the Kiev 4AM and M was only made till 1984 and those came with the Helios 103 as you mentioned.

The Fed 5 series of cameras was made till the early 90s and I have plenty of them from 1992 and 1993, maybe someone had a bunch of purloined J-8 blocks and planned to assemble them to completed lenses and sell them to people who wanted a faster lens than the f2.8 Industar l/d lens that came on those late made Fed 5C and 5B cameras.
 
I don't know about your seller but moscowphoto has a reputation for dodgy lenses, changing the front ring of old Helios 44 to make them look like "new old stock" 44M-7.
If the lens is good as you say, then why to worry about it? enjoy it!
 
Livesteamer said:
In the old Soviet Union, there used to be a saying, "Without vodka it makes no sense." Perhaps that applies here as well but glad it worked out for you. Joe
Click to expand...
Could well be the explanation!

I have a bit of a thing for programmable calculators and have some russian ones. A couple of them are dated to '94, even though, allegedly, production ended in '91-'92. By then, they were hopelessly outdated and outclassed so it makes no sense why they were still made (assuming they were new and weren't just using up parts). I bought mine as "NOS" so I'm happy they did make them. They're very unusual and quirky machines, slow but very advanced in programming terms.
 
By 1991 some Soviet parts looked like this:
https://www.google.ca/search?q=пуст...dAhWE3YMKHUMHA0UQsAR6BAgAEAE&biw=1024&bih=531
For bottle of Vodka, block of cigarettes or bag of sugar you could have everything. Whatever OP is asking about, in 1991 people had next to no food to eat and other things to buy. For bottle of vodka, if you know right people in right place they will do anything.
This nonsense (USSR) ended in 1991. By the end of January 1992 Russian president legalized free entrepreneurship. After it nobody needed FSU cameras. But in 1991 they were making Jupiters-12, FEDs and who knows what else was still available, including old stock to have it relabeled. As for documents, they will write anything stupid for you on paper. For bottle of vodka, block of cigarettes or bag of sugar. University diploma with all stamps and signatures? Not a problem.
 
Thanks everyone for your replies and they make sense. Having visited the SU at the very end of the 80s I can see that the situation could easily arise where one component (in this case the optical block of a J8) could continue in production after the need had gone as long as it kept the factories rolling (or the dollars mounting in someone's pocket) . I doubt there is any trickery going on as there is no point in going to that trouble just to sell the product cheaper than some people sell earlier second hand black-body J8s. I'm still quite surprised not to see more 90's J8s in the wild though.

Thnaks again everyone.
 
I don't have any answers for your question, but I am surprised that you had to shim the lenses. I've used J-8's on Leica and Bessa LTM cameras, as well as with LTM to M adapters on the M mount Bessas and Leicas, and never experienced any focus issues.
 
Later Jupiter lenses had a serial number that did not start with a year of manufacture anymore.
The numbers that signal a year are 7 digits long, the numbers that are just number are 6 digits long.
 
Dear all,

Thanks again, especially to Ko. Fe. who shows that later lenses did exist in the wild. Interestingly enough my optical blocks have the serial number (seven figure starting 91, also indicated on passport which is dated 91) on the front bezel so this lends credence to the idea that they were perhaps made for something other than LTM mounts as the late LTM models have the serial number on the mount barrel rather than the bezel; I will try and upload a picture that will explain things better. Perhaps there were specific military uses or indeed the military needed replacements for their own cameras but didn't need new barrels.

To Steve. M, these were just the J8 optical blocks (units), without focusing mounts. I have put them into both Kiev/Contax and LTM mounts and in each case they needed the appropriate shim for the mount. I agree that many LTM J8s do not need their shims modified (especially the later ones) to work on an LTM camera but all J8s (as far as I know) need shims of some sort which would be fitted in the factory.

Thanks all
 
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