2008 RFF Street Photography Project: Rules/Timeframe discussion

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Stephanie Brim

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I think that we should lay down some rules and then a timeframe.

Rules as I see them:

1. We don't talk about the project.
2. We don't talk about the project.

Er...wait...wrong set of rules. 😀

I'd actually like this to be as rule free as possible while still producing the best photographs. Street photography is a really broad subject and I'd like to show as many facets of it as possible. Bogging the project down with a lot of rules will be the one thing we don't want.

There really only need to be two rules in my mind, and neither concerns the photos that can be submitted.

1. Photos must be taken with a rangefinder camera. This is rangefinderforum.com after all.
2. Equipment doesn't enter into this at all in any other way, therefore equipment doesn't need to be disclosed.

The first rule is self explanatory. We covered that plenty in the other thread. The second rule may need a bit more of an explanation, though I touched on it in the other thread as well.

When the equipment used for a photograph is revealed there tends to be a lot of gear discussion and less discussion of the actual photograph. I'm really hoping that in not having people post what they used we get more discussion on the merits of the photograph than the gear used. Due to rule one, we'll all know it was a rangefinder. This will prove a point in my mind: what gear you have doesn't matter when the opportunity presents itself. It's one of the things I want to show here.

Any other rules may be put forward, but these are the two that I think should stick.

As for the time frame, I think that we should discuss a period of a few months...maybe 3 or 4. No more than 6. I want to have plenty of time to shoot, but not go overboard. So suggestions in that would be good.

Anything else people want to add is welcome and appreciated as long as it doesn't have anything to do with rule 1 and rule 2.
 
Some addition ideas and possible limitations:
- picture can not be changing by any photo editors (like PS) exept:
-- brightness
-- contrast
-- color balance
-- scratches and dust
.
Open question: Frame can be cropped of full frame only?
.
Another open question:
Is scope 3-6 monthes for shooting and posting or only for posting, but picture itself could be captured before?
 
I like the idea of a contest in general however i have some caviats.

First, on the image manipulation rules, give me a farking break. What we do is as much about the print as it is the shot, if not more. You want to disallow things like compositing, HDR, cloning, et al. fine, but the basis of printing has been about localized manipulation since the earliest days of the art. Might I, however, suggest that what is needed is a set of ethical guidelines like those set out by the Society of Professional Journalists.

Second, a contest like this needs to be opened up to any type of taking, wither or not an image was taken with a rangefinder is irrelevant, it doesn't matter if it was take with a pinhole camera, an 8X10 field camera, or an Nikonos. What is important is promoting street photography and photojournalism as an art not with what kind of camera it was made. You people need to remember that this is about gaining acceptance for a craft, of celebrating the candid image, it's about taking pictures of people in their natural habitat if you will. Not one of you can say that an image taken with a Leica is better or worse than an image taken with a Nikon D200. What is important is the subject matter, and style of picture. Infact some of the best street photography done in recent years has been done by guys with DSLRs. I love shooting with my rangefinders but I am a documentary photographer first and formost, and as such use the tools best designed for the job and availible to me. The question to ask yourself is "are you a photographer or are you a bunch of rich dentist types with more gear than brains?" The former makes images that speak to the human condition, the latter self-masturbates for the affection and coddling of those around him.

/sorry, rant over

As for the time line, lets make it open. Submission deadline of, say, middle of the summer. Images may be taken at any time but the printing/toning must be new.

Also, I would contact canon, nikon, leica, oly, jobo, epson, kodak, fuji, adobe, and panasonic to see about maybe getting some prizes. and get ahold of some of the well established names in street work that are still around and see of they would judge.
 
The way I would like to see it:

RF Only...we went thru this already people, this is a RF forum AND a project on streetphotos... pretty simple stuff.
We rely on honesty for enforcement of rules... if your that big of a loser that you have to cheat to win a contest with no prize on RFF of all places, knock yourself out.

basic manipulation ok... dodge, burn, crop, contrast, etc. Street is about the moment, so we dont want to have people cloning in/out things or any heavy additions/deletions from the image that were not part of that moment, however, you should be allowed to interpret the print the way you want or remember that moment (use basic darkroom 101 techniques)

I say it has to be a 2008 photo. The point (in my mind) is to see what people can do now, not two or even twenty years ago, but now. A contest is to help us get out, off our arse and get creative, not rely on past fame just to win a contest.

I say 6 months to shoot and post. End date August 31, 2008.
 
Riaz Mesbah said:
First, on the image manipulation rules, give me a farking break. What we do is as much about the print as it is the shot, if not more. You want to disallow things like compositing, HDR, cloning, et al. fine, but the basis of printing has been about localized manipulation since the earliest days of the art.
Click to expand...
Point taken.

My suggestion would be "nothing that couldn't be done in a wet darkroom", enforced (as it were) on the honour system.
Riaz Mesbah said:
You people need to remember that this is about gaining acceptance for a craft, of celebrating the candid image, it's about taking pictures of people in their natural habitat if you will. Not one of you can say that an image taken with a Leica is better or worse than an image taken with a Nikon D200.
Click to expand...
Hmm. "You People". With a post-count of 8 (at the time I saw your post) I'd suggest you don't know much about us.

As to equipment used, I can understand the point of "who cares about the equipment, lets concentrate on the photo". I really can. I use digital SLRs and film SLRs rather a lot. However, this is www.rangefinderforum.com, and not www.anyoldcamera.com. And its Stephanie's idea, she seems to have the carriage of it, so I think her wishes need to be respected. It's no skin off my nose, anyway - I'd use a rangefinder no matter what the rules.

Oh, and I take the point that nobody can really tell what you used to take the photo, and so the rule is unenforceable. I'm sure that I could use a film SLR and nobody would know the difference. But that's hardly the point, and I'm sure the vast majority of "you people" feel the same way.
Riaz Mesbah said:
/sorry, rant over
Click to expand...
So's mine.

...Mike
 
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Riaz Mesbah said:
I like the idea of a contest in general however i have some caviats.

First, on the image manipulation rules, give me a farking break. What we do is as much about the print as it is the shot, if not more. You want to disallow things like compositing, HDR, cloning, et al. fine, but the basis of printing has been about localized manipulation since the earliest days of the art. Might I, however, suggest that what is needed is a set of ethical guidelines like those set out by the Society of Professional Journalists.

Second, a contest like this needs to be opened up to any type of taking, wither or not an image was taken with a rangefinder is irrelevant, it doesn't matter if it was take with a pinhole camera, an 8X10 field camera, or an Nikonos. What is important is promoting street photography and photojournalism as an art not with what kind of camera it was made. You people need to remember that this is about gaining acceptance for a craft, of celebrating the candid image, it's about taking pictures of people in their natural habitat if you will. Not one of you can say that an image taken with a Leica is better or worse than an image taken with a Nikon D200. What is important is the subject matter, and style of picture. Infact some of the best street photography done in recent years has been done by guys with DSLRs. I love shooting with my rangefinders but I am a documentary photographer first and formost, and as such use the tools best designed for the job and availible to me. The question to ask yourself is "are you a photographer or are you a bunch of rich dentist types with more gear than brains?" The former makes images that speak to the human condition, the latter self-masturbates for the affection and coddling of those around him.

/sorry, rant over

As for the time line, lets make it open. Submission deadline of, say, middle of the summer. Images may be taken at any time but the printing/toning must be new.

Also, I would contact canon, nikon, leica, oly, jobo, epson, kodak, fuji, adobe, and panasonic to see about maybe getting some prizes. and get ahold of some of the well established names in street work that are still around and see of they would judge.
Click to expand...

You might as well as go outside and bang your head against the wall when it comes to the equipment issue. Stephanie made it clear on one of the other threads about this- she doesn't care who is out, just who is in. There are going to be many good photograhers who will not or cannot participate in this because of the ridiculous equipment rule. But it is her contest and that is the rule, as archaic as it is.
 
Rick Waldroup said:
There are going to be many good photograhers who will not or cannot participate in this because of the ridiculous equipment rule.
Click to expand...
As it happens, unless they're equipment-bigots, I'd assume that any photographer who really wanted to participate might manage to find an RF camera and take a winning (or at least contending) photo. After all, if the equipment doesn't matter then it shouldn't matter.
Rick Waldroup said:
But it is her contest and that is the rule, as archaic as it is
Click to expand...
Archaic? Why?? Using an RF camera on an RF forum - who ever would have thunk? It might be like insisting on a Canon camera on a Canon forum.

A real-world example: I submitted a photo to a Canon camera forum competition, taken using B&W film, a Canon P and a Canon LTM 50/1.8 - which made me about as popular as a pork chop in a synagogue. Canon camera, Canon lens, Canon scanner. If they made it, I might have used Canon film. Certainly, I printed the photo on Canon paper with a Canon printer. But, it seems, I wasn't being digital enough. My photo wasn't considered - it was simply rejected. Perfectly reasonable, it seems...

But, no, we're being prejudiced around here while they were being "part of the modern world" over there. (Full disclosure: if I weren't trying to make a fuss I had plenty of Canon dSLR shots I might have entered.)

...Mike
 
rover said:
Now that is funny.

I think Stephanie has said it best, be concerned with who is in, not who is out.
Click to expand...

There are several ways to interpret that statement. I see it as excluding people.

Here's the thing. Stephanie first proposed this idea based on Roger's post about some type of contest to promote street photography and to make people aware of this wonderful art form.

Stephanie's idea is a great idea. I am all for anything that will promote and make people understand what street photography is all about. Our personal freedoms and liberties are under attack like never before. There is a real possibility that street photography, as we know it, may disappear altogether. Not tomorrow, not next year, but over a period of time, that is a legitimate threat. So, if you're main concern is to protect our rights to street shooting, to make the public aware of what a wonderful part of photography this is, and to promote this aspect of photography, why in the hell would you want to limit those who can participate and those who can't?

I know this is a rangefinder forum. So what? If the main concern is to promote street photography and make people understand what it is- why limit anyone, in any way, shape, or form as to what equipment they can use. I don't give a rat's ass about contests or prizes. But, a project like this about something so dear to my heart, does interest me. Yet, I am excluded, along with others because I am not shooting the right kind of camera. For those who do not see the absurdity of that, then I don't know what else to say.
 
Rick. Others who have said they shoot SLRs, digital SLRs, P&S, etc, have said that they're in because they have at least one rangefinder and they're willing to use it. If you're letting one really TINY thing let you not participate then I see that as your problem, not mine. I've been civil since this started, but people are right. This is my project. With or without you it will be a great one. Either get a rangefinder and participate or stop posting in the threads. This is simple. And that's the last I'm going to say.

Edit: I'm tired.
 
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Mate, in my limited experience of this place any thread dealing with "street", in any context, usually ends up in a punch-up.
 
Wow - this is getting quite ridiculous. It's a contest and the organizer sets the "rules", if we want to call them that. Perhaps a good analogy, perhaps not: If you want to enter the Mega Millions lotto, you buy a ticket for that lottery, not one for "Jackpot" simply because you happen to like the colour of those tickets better. Use a rangefinder or don't enter the contest. If you really, really need to use an SLR (or whatever), use it and start your own contest.
 
O.k> Let-s talk about photography ... I dindn't shoot with BESSA for a long time( it's question of money ... for film chemicals etc ... ) but I can try to do something for this project. Some older members already published 2 RF photo books. That is a good idea. I still believe that Rf
camera has special use on street. I hope that someone will help this idea with
money( for publishing ) and several RF members ( like R.Hicks, T.Abrahamson etc.)
could say: this photo is REAL RF street photo! It will be published ... I think that their taste for good photo is better than ours.
Cheers!
 
leicasniper said:
Like trying to herd cats.
Click to expand...

back on track people.

what are the rules and timeframe for this project...Steph laid down the basics:
1. Photos must be taken with a rangefinder camera. This is rangefinderforum.com after all.
2. Equipment doesn't enter into this at all in any other way, therefore equipment doesn't need to be disclosed.

AND now we have to decide on the remaining rules.

FOCUS on the task and stop whining you bunch of cats 🙂
 
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