adamduckworth
Adam Duckworth
New Leica owner so excuse the ignorance...
I have the 35mm f2. Lovely.
I have the chance to buy a 21mm f2.8 Elmarit. Not 6bit, not Asph.
Would this be a wise move as it's half the price of the latest 6-bit Ashp (both used)?
Would I notice a difference? Should I buy it and pay to get it coded?
Or one of those DIY code kits?
Some advice please, Leica people.
Thanks
Adam
I have the 35mm f2. Lovely.
I have the chance to buy a 21mm f2.8 Elmarit. Not 6bit, not Asph.
Would this be a wise move as it's half the price of the latest 6-bit Ashp (both used)?
Would I notice a difference? Should I buy it and pay to get it coded?
Or one of those DIY code kits?
Some advice please, Leica people.
Thanks
Adam
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Adam,
I use two uncoded non-Leica lenses on my M8, perfectly happily (Voigtländer f/4, Kobalux f/2.8).
Whether you notice the difference or not will depend partly on what sort of things you photograph, and how critical you are.
Rivet-counters, looking for problems, probably won't be happy. Many other photographers will.
Cheers,
R.
I use two uncoded non-Leica lenses on my M8, perfectly happily (Voigtländer f/4, Kobalux f/2.8).
Whether you notice the difference or not will depend partly on what sort of things you photograph, and how critical you are.
Rivet-counters, looking for problems, probably won't be happy. Many other photographers will.
Cheers,
R.
yanidel
Well-known
As you are a new Leica owner, one of the question I would ask myself IMO is whether you mind about using an external viewfinder for it. I have a 21mm and found that you can approximate with the view finder but not convenient and too approximative therefore I went for a 25mm where framelines can be seen, much less frustrating.
adamduckworth
Adam Duckworth
No, not a rivet-counter! Bought M8 to be my carry-at-all-times camera. Sticking a 21mm in the bag will just give more more options for a bit of general whatever-I-fancy photography.
Used to use an M6 years ago and loved the 24mm. So I figured the 21 will work out at about 28ish so won't be miles out.
Quite happy using the "approximate" viewfinder method! Well, I think I will be. I can always buy the viewfinder if I decide I need one.
And keep on biking, Mr Hicks. My day job is pretty much bikes + photos.
Thanks
Used to use an M6 years ago and loved the 24mm. So I figured the 21 will work out at about 28ish so won't be miles out.
Quite happy using the "approximate" viewfinder method! Well, I think I will be. I can always buy the viewfinder if I decide I need one.
And keep on biking, Mr Hicks. My day job is pretty much bikes + photos.
Thanks
Ben Z
Veteran
I use both the pre- or non-ASPH 21 Elmarit and the Voitlander 21 (the screwmount version, I believe there's now an M mount also). Both are superb lenses IMHO. I owned the ASPH some years ago but sold it. I agree with Roger that if you aren't a rivet counter the pre-ASPH lenses are not going to disappoint. However, with the M8 I believe that coding is very useful. You need the IR filter in most instances, and unless you want to diddle with a program like Corner Fix for every shot, coding the lenses is the way to go. I coded both of mine myself, permanently by milling a little recess for the black code bars (not necessary to do the white ones) and filling them in with paint. With the pre-ASPH Elmarit there is a mount screw that sits over the barcode reader, and coded or not, if you have the camera Lens Detection "On" (such as for other lenses) you will need to fill in that screw head with white paint, otherwise the M8 thinks it's a 90mm. Oh, and for a viewfinder I use a 28 which is perfect. There are scads of them of different manufacturers available used.
TimF
Established
The most beneficial aspect of the coding is to get the benefit of post-capture correction of the cyan shift caused by the UV/IR filters on wide angle lenses. As Roger has already said, whether this matters so much to an individual does depend on what they shoot.
There is an alternative however. Sean Reid has written an excellent review of the Zeiss 18mm f/4 on his web site, in which he suggests that, for that lens at least, using an IR filter coupled with a program called Cornerfix (see here) is as effective.
There is a gentleman called John Milich who can mill the bayonet from your lens so you can apply appropriate coding. This can of course be done on an unmilled mount, but does wear off with time, John's mods mean that a once only coding can be made. I believe this costs about $100 or so. For those with screw mount lenses, I think he also does milled adapters. As I'm awaiting delivery of an L39 50mm f/1.5 Summarit shortly I might look into this, though the coding is certainly most important on lenses less than 50mm focal length.
There is an alternative however. Sean Reid has written an excellent review of the Zeiss 18mm f/4 on his web site, in which he suggests that, for that lens at least, using an IR filter coupled with a program called Cornerfix (see here) is as effective.
There is a gentleman called John Milich who can mill the bayonet from your lens so you can apply appropriate coding. This can of course be done on an unmilled mount, but does wear off with time, John's mods mean that a once only coding can be made. I believe this costs about $100 or so. For those with screw mount lenses, I think he also does milled adapters. As I'm awaiting delivery of an L39 50mm f/1.5 Summarit shortly I might look into this, though the coding is certainly most important on lenses less than 50mm focal length.
boy_lah
Discovering RF
I too recently acquired a used m8 and the first thing i noticed with my non 6bit without IR cut filters are funny colours. A batch of my indoor photos were all tinged with purple cast (suspect indoor lighting). Another batch in the park turned black into purple but the overall colours were also 'not right' - suspect purple cast too. These are using my 35 and 50 lens - not super wide. And my 50/2 Rigid seems to be more affected than my 35/2 pre-asph.
So...i've just ordered two IR cut filters which is meant to help. As for vinyetting correction...i'm not so fussed.
I am however wondering about this cyan shift fix with 6bit code. Are my problems principal down to the IR cut or would i benefit from the cyan shift fix too? anyone know/comment?
Either way, i have borrowed and coded my lens with that 'marker' fix option.
So...i've just ordered two IR cut filters which is meant to help. As for vinyetting correction...i'm not so fussed.
I am however wondering about this cyan shift fix with 6bit code. Are my problems principal down to the IR cut or would i benefit from the cyan shift fix too? anyone know/comment?
Either way, i have borrowed and coded my lens with that 'marker' fix option.
afineman
Established
as far as the asph vrs non asph 21mm lens goes, they are both great lenses. non is slightly less distortion but more vignetting than the asph version (it's in leica's tech notes) both have excellent contrast and sharpness. that said, i would suggest you consider a 24mm lens, since then you won't need any accessory finders for the 24.
as for coded vrs not, you can self code with a sharpie (it just rubs off so you need to reapply often)
personally i have owned both versions of the 21mm and never owned a 24, but i have borrowed and shot with the 24 on the m8 and i will probably end up getting one when funds are there.
as for coded vrs not, you can self code with a sharpie (it just rubs off so you need to reapply often)
personally i have owned both versions of the 21mm and never owned a 24, but i have borrowed and shot with the 24 on the m8 and i will probably end up getting one when funds are there.
DwF
Well-known
I shoot with the 21mm non-asph Elmarit and really like this lens with my M8. I found while traveling recently, it actually compliment my 28mm lens which sits on the body most of the time. For street shooting, I often like to shoot with the 21 at chest level and without critical concern for frame-lines. For those photos where I need to line up verticals, it just takes some patience in framing. And you get good at it as you go. I find this preferable to using an aux finder.
I can see the attraction of the 24 Elmarit for the M8 with the frame-lines present in the finder, but if you have a deal on a nice 21 Elmarit, I would get it and then fit it with the UV IR filter. This pre-asph version of the 21 has been reviewed unfairly in my opinion as one who has shot with many Leica lenses over many years.
I bet you'll be happy you got it. There are several photos taken with it in the gallery link below.
http://www.pbase.com/image/103253446
David
I can see the attraction of the 24 Elmarit for the M8 with the frame-lines present in the finder, but if you have a deal on a nice 21 Elmarit, I would get it and then fit it with the UV IR filter. This pre-asph version of the 21 has been reviewed unfairly in my opinion as one who has shot with many Leica lenses over many years.
I bet you'll be happy you got it. There are several photos taken with it in the gallery link below.
http://www.pbase.com/image/103253446
David
ww@lt
Member
Tom Niblick
Well-known
I've used a 21 Biogon for the last year and a half uncoded and mostly filterless. 90% of the time its used for landscapes and I'm perfectly happy with the results. I'm just now getting it ready to send off to DAG to get it coded, mostly because the occasional architectural interior has some black fabric that turns purple. Otherwise its no (heresy) big deal.
Some 21 samples on this page. No rain, no rainbows & Mahaulepu.
http://www.kauaisprintmaker.com/portfolio.php
Some 21 samples on this page. No rain, no rainbows & Mahaulepu.
http://www.kauaisprintmaker.com/portfolio.php
afineman
Established
so, what's DAG's method of coding lenses?
Photon42
burn the box
The 21 is a very good addition to your 35. I'd certainly have it coded. The pen color rubs off sooner or later and with lenses wider than 35, coding is recommended.
The non-ASPH 21 works very well on the M8. I'd suspect, it's a bit more prone to flare than the Zeiss 21, maybe also compared to the ASPH.
Yes, the M8 rangefinder is a bit too tight, but you can accustom yourself to it. I never use an accessory finder with the 21.
Rgds
Ivo
The non-ASPH 21 works very well on the M8. I'd suspect, it's a bit more prone to flare than the Zeiss 21, maybe also compared to the ASPH.
Yes, the M8 rangefinder is a bit too tight, but you can accustom yourself to it. I never use an accessory finder with the 21.
Rgds
Ivo
Tom Niblick
Well-known
so, what's DAG's method of coding lenses?
He has the flange milled and checks the focus.
He has the flange milled and checks the focus.
afineman
Established
nice, what's his charge for that?
ERV
Well-known
I have a Zeiss 21mm f4.5 that I really like.
Small lens, very sharp, excellent price.
Its only 4.5 but that's fine for what I use it for.
Popflash has the Zeiss 21 modified for the M8.
I also have a 28mm finder but have been using the whole finder method for now.
I have a Thumbs Up on my M8 and its very tight and difficult to slide off.
I could use a metal file and take off a couple of strokes of the base of the Thumbs Up to make it easier to slide on and off.
I've tried the hand coating method and even bought a WW template mentioned in this thread, which works for a while.
The ink eventually rubs off, unfortunately.
Small lens, very sharp, excellent price.
Its only 4.5 but that's fine for what I use it for.
Popflash has the Zeiss 21 modified for the M8.
I also have a 28mm finder but have been using the whole finder method for now.
I have a Thumbs Up on my M8 and its very tight and difficult to slide off.
I could use a metal file and take off a couple of strokes of the base of the Thumbs Up to make it easier to slide on and off.
I've tried the hand coating method and even bought a WW template mentioned in this thread, which works for a while.
The ink eventually rubs off, unfortunately.
Tom Niblick
Well-known
Its $75 plus s and h.