I just bought a 28/90 Kipon LTM to M adapter off ebay because I wanted to code a 28mm f/3.5 Voigtlander lens. Unfortunately, it mounts my lens off center by about 1/4 / 90 degrees (i.e. the depth of field scale is on the right side of the mounted lens [instead of on top] with the camera body horizontal)... and apparently it is designed that because the 6 bit coding lines up to the M8's sensor for that data. What's the deal with this? Has anyone else experienced this?
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Nobody has any idea?
Ok, received a response from the seller:
"Hello, Many M39 lenses exist in the market and they were produced by different companies in different years. There is design tolerance for this M39-M adapter due to so many different M39 lenses. The adapter is designed to be correct-rotated for most of the M39 lenses, but not all. This "mal-rotated" issue doesn't affect the use and accuracy of the lens, as well as the 6-bit coding reading by the leica m8 or m9 camera.
If you want the lens with the "correct position" with this kind of adapter, you have to test the adapter one by one with your lens."
"Hello, Many M39 lenses exist in the market and they were produced by different companies in different years. There is design tolerance for this M39-M adapter due to so many different M39 lenses. The adapter is designed to be correct-rotated for most of the M39 lenses, but not all. This "mal-rotated" issue doesn't affect the use and accuracy of the lens, as well as the 6-bit coding reading by the leica m8 or m9 camera.
If you want the lens with the "correct position" with this kind of adapter, you have to test the adapter one by one with your lens."
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
It is quite normal - for instance the Summarit 1.5/5 cm mounts 30 degrees off centre - it was designed that way. Many LTM lenses do. As long as it focusses correctly, don't worry.
Yes, normal for older Leica lenses, but not for Voigtlander lenses (from my experience). I don't want to turn my camera vertical in order to see the depth of field scale...
Guess I'm going to be stuck with a non-coded voigtlander.
Guess I'm going to be stuck with a non-coded voigtlander.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Or get a decently made adapter...For instance John Milich.
Ben Z
Veteran
IIRC some if not all the Voitlander lenses have extra screw holes under the rear flange so that it can be repositioned to match up the thread timing with camera or adapter. If the owner isn't comfortable doing it, any camera repairman could.
I keep hearing about these but cannot figure out where to see them and purchase them...
theno23
Established
I had exactly the same thing with my Voigtlander 35/1.7. The original Voigtlander adaptor is fine, the milled chinese one from ebay is 90 degrees off. I'm planning to get my old adaptor milled, but I'm using it ok as it is. the only real problem is reading the DoF scale.
- Steve
- Steve
Mark Schretlen
mostly harmless
I've got a couple of these Kipon milled adapters - they both mount a lens rotated at 90 degrees to a proper mount. I also have a Milich adapter and a CV type II adaptor - these both mount a lens correctly.
In general, the Kipon adapters focus and couple with most lenses correctly. When coded, my M8 reads the milled Kipons accurately. HOWEVER, the 90 degree rotation causes two issues that a buyer should be aware of:
1) On LTM lenses which are able to do coupled focusing at less than one meter, the extra 90 degree roatation generally means that they will be uncoupled when focusing below one meter. These are generally the modern CV (and Rollei) lenses which have a cut out where the focus coupler of the camera sits (when mounted properly). Lenses that I have experience with which have "close focus coupling issues" with the Kipons are: CV Ultron 28/1.9, CV Nokton 50/1.5, and the Rollei Sonnar 40/2.8. The Militch and CV adapters do not have these "close focus coupling issues".
2) On LTM lenses which couple focus with the camera via a tongue will also have focus coupling issues when they are rotated 90 degress to a proper mount (chances are, they won't couple focus at all). These are generally 90mm and longer lenses from all manufacturers. Leica, Canon, Nikon and even the modern CV APO-Lanthar 90/3.5 all have used tongues to couple focusing. Again, the Militch and CV adapters do not have this problem.
All that said, I've just ordered a couple more milled Kipons for lenses where I know they will work correctly
In general, the Kipon adapters focus and couple with most lenses correctly. When coded, my M8 reads the milled Kipons accurately. HOWEVER, the 90 degree rotation causes two issues that a buyer should be aware of:
1) On LTM lenses which are able to do coupled focusing at less than one meter, the extra 90 degree roatation generally means that they will be uncoupled when focusing below one meter. These are generally the modern CV (and Rollei) lenses which have a cut out where the focus coupler of the camera sits (when mounted properly). Lenses that I have experience with which have "close focus coupling issues" with the Kipons are: CV Ultron 28/1.9, CV Nokton 50/1.5, and the Rollei Sonnar 40/2.8. The Militch and CV adapters do not have these "close focus coupling issues".
2) On LTM lenses which couple focus with the camera via a tongue will also have focus coupling issues when they are rotated 90 degress to a proper mount (chances are, they won't couple focus at all). These are generally 90mm and longer lenses from all manufacturers. Leica, Canon, Nikon and even the modern CV APO-Lanthar 90/3.5 all have used tongues to couple focusing. Again, the Militch and CV adapters do not have this problem.
All that said, I've just ordered a couple more milled Kipons for lenses where I know they will work correctly
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
I bought one of the Kipon adapters and will never again. I had the same problem. I explained that Leica and Voigtlander don't have that problem at all in getting the lenses aligned within 10 degrees of the top where they're supposed to be but the people in HK who I purchased from said that they were designed that way to be compatible with every one. That's a big crock of $h!t. I told them that their QC is unsatisfactory and that I would never recommend people buy their products. I can guarantee that every LTM lens that is *within spec* will not sit properly aligned on those adapters.
The lenses with infinity locks and focus tabs are aligned in such a way that the user can accurately feel focus just by knowing where the position of the tab is. Every LTM body has their threads cut so the lens sits in a certain orientation. Every old LTM lens that sits off this orientation has had the threads stretch over time which is quite common but we shouldn't be forced to hope that our lenses are all but worn out in order to sit properly on the camera.
It's absolutely unsatisfactory.
The recent two adapters I got were the Jieyeng USA adapters which are less prone to the issue but still sit about 30-45 degrees off axis. I got the same BS answer to which I replied that this thread axis standard has existed for almost a century and has not changed. I told them to get on their quality control and that I would absolutely recommend against anyone purchasing from them until they made the correct change and noted it in their auctions. We'll see how that goes.
We can vote with our pocketbooks and let them know our displeasure at their lack of attention to detail. I don't want to be looking at the right side of my camera to check the DOF markings.
Phil Forrest
The lenses with infinity locks and focus tabs are aligned in such a way that the user can accurately feel focus just by knowing where the position of the tab is. Every LTM body has their threads cut so the lens sits in a certain orientation. Every old LTM lens that sits off this orientation has had the threads stretch over time which is quite common but we shouldn't be forced to hope that our lenses are all but worn out in order to sit properly on the camera.
It's absolutely unsatisfactory.
The recent two adapters I got were the Jieyeng USA adapters which are less prone to the issue but still sit about 30-45 degrees off axis. I got the same BS answer to which I replied that this thread axis standard has existed for almost a century and has not changed. I told them to get on their quality control and that I would absolutely recommend against anyone purchasing from them until they made the correct change and noted it in their auctions. We'll see how that goes.
We can vote with our pocketbooks and let them know our displeasure at their lack of attention to detail. I don't want to be looking at the right side of my camera to check the DOF markings.
Phil Forrest
akk2
Established
For voigtlander screw mount lenses, u can take the mount off and shift to the other screws.
Mark Schretlen
mostly harmless
Yep. That'll work ... except when I want to go for that retro-affordable full frame look and use my Barnack or Canon P. It would make switching the lenses to LTM and back impractical, rather than simply mounting/unmounting an adapter.
yoyo22
Well-known
I've had that 10° issue even with an original CV adapter (1st version) and the 15mm Heliar.
250swb
Well-known
I've got some Kipon adapters and think they are fine, they don't mount the lenses perfectly symmetrical, but I only notice it if I look to find fault. Its not like having your steering wheel off centre, you won't crash the camera into something. I seem to remember some LTM lenses didn't mount square on my old IIIF so maybe my expectations of perfection have long ago been sabotaged by Leica themselves?
Steve
Steve
Roel
Well-known
I just received my 6bit Kipon adapter (L-39-m 35/135)and have the same problem of the lens not mounting correctly. I can however live with this on the vc 15 mm (although the hood is now also not correctly aligned for the sun from above.
However I noticed that my Nikon rf ltm 85mm and 105mm lenses are not focussing at all!! Anybody notice this problem too?
(The leica 50mm summar does focus.)
However I noticed that my Nikon rf ltm 85mm and 105mm lenses are not focussing at all!! Anybody notice this problem too?
(The leica 50mm summar does focus.)
fiatlux
Established
I bought two "Jieying" 6-bit adapters on the bay. I used them on CV 15 and 75 lenses. Focus accuracy is good and I did not notice a significant alignment issue.