28mm/2.0 ZM Zeiss Germany - Open Letter

[jsuominen]

Surely a 28 1.4 is possible with aspheric elements readily available.

Maybe, but then it would not be based on Biogon design? I haven't seen any f/1.4 wide-angle lenses made with that formula. ZM 35/2 is the fastest, if this (non-authoritive) listing is correct http://www.flickr.com/groups/biogon/ .

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

I dont know why they insist on building lenses that weigh a ton or more.

I've always wondered this myself. Then I look at SUVs with a lone driver, and then I find my answer 😉

 

[Ororaro]

I've always wondered this myself. Then I look at SUVs with a lone driver, and then I find my answer 😉

What's the answer?

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

What's the answer?

You know how a picture is supposedly worth a 1000 words? Well, I'm too lazy to type all of them. 😀

But if you must have a title, it is "Bigger is Better - emotional compensation in a consumer society"

 

[ferider]

Or in other words: "Drive the biggest car and use the smallest cell phone while you drive it ?" 🙂

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Or in other words: "Drive the biggest car and use the smallest cell phone while you drive it ?" 🙂

And a "Venti" cup on the other hand. 😀

Do not try that on a motorcyle, kids, no matter how big or small!

 

[35mmdelux]

85mm/2.0 sonnar for $1200 or 90mm/2.0 AA Leica for $3000. You choose. I did choose the 90mm/2.8 Elmarit-M (late), as good as AA at 2.8 and beyond.

[Skinney has it that the 85mm/2.0 Sonnar will come in at $2800 because its made in Germany by Deutsch hands.]

 

[thomasw_]

I think the construction of a 85/2 ZM involves a floating element. That alone would involve higher manufactoring/fabrication costs. I don't know whether the German and Japanese labour costs differ dramatically.

 

[italy74]

Hi guys,

some of you pointed the different philosophy of ZM and Leica M lenses. For these latest one I've found an interesting document about their "souls and secrets", analyzing both the technical sides and the background one... Does something like that exists also for ZM lenses? I'd be glad to find out more..

ps. Someone could have recognized me since I also wrote on the parallel forum about the Summicron 28 F/2. In my case, I guess whatever kind of competition could be only positive for us "customers".

 

[Turtle]

I have the Ultron 28mm 1.9 and would not buy a ZM 28mm. What I do want is an 85mm f/2 Sonnar that sells for $1200.

Canon ought to jump into the fray and introduce M versions of the 50mm f/0.95 and the 19mm.

I bought the 50mm Planar and think it is great. Best money I've spent lately.

Although they would never do so, Leica and co would be in real trouble if Canon did this. It only took me my first roll of film under the loupe to know why people got so excited about the 135 f2L. If they brought those prices and quality to M mount....

I too would love a more reasonably priced Zeiss 85 f2 lens. The Zm range is essnentially two: one at leica prices and another at 30-40%. To gain the full optical range one has to do both which is a pig is you are on a tighter budget. I think Zeiss kinda has to respond to the 75 and 90 Summarits Leica just produced....

 

[mfogiel]

italy74,

You will find some opinions about the different philosophy of Leica and Zeiss mainly from people who either work for Leica or are leicaphiles, however even in this case some interesting information comes through - look up for example this stuff:

http://www.imx.nl/photo/zeiss/

Zeiss has come out with their ZM line at a point in time when everybody was dumping their film cameras in favour of digital, and the mass market shifted to DSLR's, so there has not been enough time for these products to become diffuse and create a significant following.
Leica has suddenly found itself on the brink of extinction, with the long term excellence status which no longer sufficed in an old technology and at a price point which has become more absurd than ever.

Then came the M8, and we are waiting to see the sequel.

The diehard owners of rf cameras and lenses are obviously trying to rationalize the cost of their gear, so the equation most expensive=the best is often found behind the reasoning of the owners of Leica equipment.

Zeiss had to compete in such an environment, so it decided to create products which would not only be competitive optically, but also cheaper and with a stress on the continuation of the Zeiss heritage from such product lines like Contarex and Hasselblad. The resulting ZM line is drawing more like the Leica pre aspheric lenses with the sharpness equal to the aspherics - maybe with the exception of wide open performance, thus creating a more pleasing imagery.

The lower cost is somewhat explained by less compact lenses and more uniform barrel design. However, recently Zeiss has started adding some "iconic" products like the Distagon 15/2.8 and Sonnar 85/2, where the goal seems to be the best absolute performance, at the expense of a higher price tag.

Personally, I think it is best to try out a few lenses from various producers and see what works for you - one of differentiating factors will be if you shoot colour or B&W for example.

Here's a link to another thread, where I made up my mind:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49212

Ciao

Marek

 

[italy74]

Thanks, Marek
I had already read the imx texts, I was looking for something deeper, something that takes you a whole afternoon or evening or so instead of watching tv.

However, thanks again for your explainations. To learn, I'm always here.

See you soon.

 

[italy74]

Marek
another question: I've read some passage of your previous post but what I need now is the philosophy is behind every name mentioned: I know "sonnar" comes from Sonne and Biogon is something related to lifeforms, plus "planar" probably is related to "flat", but aside from that, all the rest is still obscure.
Besides, among all your shots, all stunning indeed, the one that really impressed me has been the one where you wanted to show the absence of flare. Which lens is that? Is the legend about a much superior flare control of Leica / Zeiss lenses against the ones of other manufacturers?

 

[mfogiel]

The flare control is usually best with the most recent lenses of any producer, due to the continuous improvement in the coatings technology, however I do not think this point can be disputed: the current T* coatings by Zeiss are unsurpassed by any other manufacturer, and Leica trails behind in this field. As to the history of Zeiss lens names and their design, there are other posters here who will give you better explanations, besides this, the substance behind each name can vary, and I personally use 7 different Planar lenses with various designs. Generally, Biogons are wide angle lenses of symmetrical design, Distagons are wide angle lenses of varying formulas, Planars and Makro Planars are mainly double Gauss designs in the normal to short telephoto range, the Sonnars are compact lenses in the normal to tele range and the Tessars are likewise very compact normal lenses, also present as telephoto in the Tele Tessar formula. The "flare control" shot was made with the Planar 50/2 ZM.